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AndreaDraco83
Post subject: Re: Finished TCM? Discuss here! SPOILERS!
Post Posted: May 10, 2009 11:23 am
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Jen wrote:
When Celeste said "I wish you had never been born" all I saw was Crawford and her at the table. Was Ylli in the background? Was Ylli "channeling" Crawford? And since Ylli said Celeste "chose to die", did she kill herself to save the secrets that she might have guessed towards the end? Or did Crawford/Ylli kill her?


I think Celeste refers to Ylli, and my opinion is that Ylli was "channeling" Crawford, so to speak. I think that it was Crawford to kill her, though, because she won't let her power go to Ylli...

... But are we really sure she's dead? I mean, if she has the power, maybe she found a way to survive the crash and escaped. When Jess asks Devin if Celeste is there with them, he answers no. Now, if she really is dead - and Jess and Devin are in a sort of death dimension/time bubble - she could have been there too. Maybe, the fact that she isn't there means that she escaped her fate, and maybe she's back to Gira.

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Jen
Post subject: Re: Finished TCM? Discuss here! SPOILERS!
Post Posted: May 10, 2009 1:21 pm
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Oracle wrote:

My favorites are the most difficult : Star box (silver and black) and the 24 gem star puzzles.
When I found the solution of the Gem star, I had to cry NO!!! when the medallion appeared. I did not make a screenshot so I had to do it again (should have done it on a paper).
It took me some time to find the 12 errors in the photos comparison. I was happy that there was not another one.
I liked also the negative puzzle because I was good at it.


Favorite moments?/ Lines?


I liked it when the cards were turned on the final chapters : it was scripted but it worked storywise.
I don't have any favorite line. The story was great. I appreciated that it was a coherent story and it "flowed" naturally.

Comments

- You cannot play again the final chapter and try different cards. Too bad. I don't want to play 10 complete games to try the different combinations. I'll play the game in Hard level, though.


I'll take a copy of that screen shot! LOL I couldn't get that puzzle to save my life. And the star one made my brain hurt.

YES! I noticed on the end chapter or two, that the cards stayed face down to flow the story in a single direction. Which I didn't mind of course, it was a very subtle change.
Good catch Oracle! And well played Aaron!

As far as your last point about being able to replay the cards to try for a different ending, I agree. I can see both sides of it, but I guess my suggestion for Dead Time, (if there is a similar feature, or an updated version of TCM) is to allow you to replay the last chapter and choose different cards if you WIN the game on HARD mode. Make it a reward, for those who really toughed it out.
my $.02

Good comments though Oracle. I didn't notice them before because you posted your thoughts a minute or so before me. :P

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Jen
Post subject: Re: Finished TCM? Discuss here! SPOILERS!
Post Posted: May 10, 2009 1:43 pm
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Spoilerific post......Be warned.









AndreaDraco83 wrote:

I think Celeste refers to Ylli, and my opinion is that Ylli was "channeling" Crawford, so to speak. I think that it was Crawford to kill her, though, because she won't let her power go to Ylli...

... But are we really sure she's dead? I mean, if she has the power, maybe she found a way to survive the crash and escaped. When Jess asks Devin if Celeste is there with them, he answers no. Now, if she really is dead - and Jess and Devin are in a sort of death dimension/time bubble - she could have been there too. Maybe, the fact that she isn't there means that she escaped her fate, and maybe she's back to Gira.


I can believe that Crawford/Ylli may have killed her since she refused to transfer her power, but.....
she looks pretty darn dead to me. Devin mentioned that when she used her power, her conciousness, or inner mind traveled in a "timeless" fashion, while the body stayed in that moment. That body (Celeste) is pretty dead, dead, deadski.

Which now just springs another insidious little question to my mind. Who then brought Jess and Devlin together for that moment to help Jess with her confrontation in the Minuret? Was it Celeste, if she's not truly dead or from beyond the grave? Was it Jess? Doubtful. She never knew her father. It wasn't her father, he didn't have the power.

Theories, theories, this feels just like LOST!

My half baked theory just got cooked up another notch! :wink:

Sorry I'm so darn chatty in this thread. :D

Jen


PS Welcome Clipper! And you as well Oracle! We love it when a lurker comes out of the shadows.

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NikolasFigaro
Post subject: Re: Finished TCM? Discuss here! SPOILERS!
Post Posted: May 10, 2009 4:01 pm
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Jen, don't worry about being too chatty, if there is one thread were we all should be chattier than usual, I think this is it! Every opinion and little detail counts!

Hmm...To be honest, I truly think that the few last chapters were probably rushed a bit, or -if not rushed- they were surely overloaded with crucial information, thus making the story harder to be understood. And since I have only played through the game once, I probably may make some false statements, so please don't be harsh!

- First of all, the "circle" (or whatever it is) that Jess and her ancestors belong to isn't explained enough. What are exactly are their powers? Why does it affect only the female members? Should we suppose that every male child born is killed, or that Ylli is the first male born in the family line? What is the exact significance of the 30year old threshold? I really think that there should have been a richer background concerning this matter, it would have made things much clearer (in a sequel perhaps?).

- What were Crawford's true motives for "adopting" Ylli and what was he expecting to achieve? Cause I really am not convinced that Crawford and Ylli are "one", at least not from the beginning. And why was Celeste so determined to let Ylli live in the first place (once he was born)? Was it simply the nature and love of a mother towards her child, or something else?

- I too believe that Celeste IS dead. If I remember correctly (although I may be wrong), near the finale, Devin tells Jess that they are in this "death dimension" and that "Celeste is also here"... The thing is HOW and -most importantly- WHY Jess is there with him. Jen's question regarding this matter is absolutely spot on...

- What purpose would Jess' death have for Crawford? Was she a threat towards him and Ylli? Or was he hoping that after Jess' death her powers would be "inherited" by Ylli? And if she was considered to a threat, how would he know in the first place? For all that he knows, Jess is Ylli's long lost twin sister who has absolutely no idea about her past and the power she posseses.

- And why is Jess amnesiac in the first place? Is she truly amnesiac in the medical sense? Or is she under a kind of hypnotic state, "unlocking" memories unknown?

Darn... so many questions... the more I try and make sense, the more I find myself asking questions... that's the beauty of it I guess! Anyway, I might be totally wrong on some of these aspects since I can't recall many details!

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AndreaDraco83
Post subject: Re: Finished TCM? Discuss here! SPOILERS!
Post Posted: May 10, 2009 4:21 pm
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I'll try to address the question for which I know the answers! :D

NikolasFigaro wrote:
Should we suppose that every male child born is killed, or that Ylli is the first male born in the family line?


Only a male twin becomes dangerous for the Circle. And this circumstance - a male twin - already happened once before, as Sidney tells Jess.

Quote:
What were Crawford's true motives for "adopting" Ylli and what was he expecting to achieve? Cause I really am not convinced that Crawford and Ylli are "one", at least not from the beginning. And why was Celeste so determined to let Ylli live in the first place (once he was born)? Was it simply the nature and love of a mother towards her child, or something else?


I think that Celeste can't help herself but love the child no matter what. As for Crawford, I really think that he craved the power Ylli could give him through his powers. Who prevailed in the end? I don't know. The theory about Ylli and Crawford being one is just a speculation.

Quote:
I too believe that Celeste IS dead. If I remember correctly (although I may be wrong), near the finale, Devin tells Jess that they are in this "death dimension" and that "Celeste is also here"...


Actually, unless I'm very mistaken, he tells Jessica that Celeste is not there. It was because of this line that I thought that Celeste could be alive.

Quote:
What purpose would Jess' death have for Crawford? Was she a threat towards him and Ylli? Or was he hoping that after Jess' death her powers would be "inherited" by Ylli? And if she was considered to a threat, how would he know in the first place? For all that he knows, Jess is Ylli's long lost twin sister who has absolutely no idea about her past and the power she posseses.


As Sidney tells Jess, she is the only one capable of stand against Ylli and put a stopper to his/Crawford's evilness. That's why he wanted her dead. And that's why Ylli - maybe knowing that he can't defeat Jess - proposes her to give him her powers willingly.

Quote:
And why is Jess amnesiac in the first place? Is she truly amnesiac in the medical sense? Or is she under a kind of hypnotic state, "unlocking" memories unknown?


When Ylli casts his spell, so to speak, toward her, Jess' power suddenly activate, freezing the moment and "teleporting" her consciousness in the ethereal world with Devin Tellus. The shock suffered from this "strap" has made her amnesiac and Devin has to help her regain her memories to become powerful enough to defeat Ylli.

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Jen
Post subject: Re: Finished TCM? Discuss here! SPOILERS!
Post Posted: May 10, 2009 4:51 pm
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Quote:
When Ylli casts his spell, so to speak, toward her, Jess' power suddenly activate, freezing the moment and "teleporting" her consciousness in the ethereal world with Devin Tellus. The shock suffered from this "strap" has made her amnesiac and Devin has to help her regain her memories to become powerful enough to defeat Ylli.





Hmmmmm.... I thought Jess's power awoke on the boat on the night of her 30th birthday. During her nightmare. I thought she used her power before the confrontation with Ylli to visit her parents at the Golden Horse. Althought she has no idea how she did that.

I thought Ylli confronting her was to..

1) Take her power. Remember he had a 30 year head start on Jess. Adrian and Celeste I'm sure have been coaching Ylli on his power since he could hold a rattle. Ylli, I'm guessing, was hoping that Jess had not discovered her powers or developed them. Remember, he tried to fake her out by saying she was not strong...yet!

2) Judge how strong she actually was. He beat feet as soon as he found out she was a threat.
AND Crawford wasn't there to throw her out a window LOL!! :?
more theories..... :lol:


Last edited by Jen on May 10, 2009 5:15 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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AndreaDraco83
Post subject: Re: Finished TCM? Discuss here! SPOILERS!
Post Posted: May 10, 2009 5:02 pm
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Jen wrote:
Hmmmmm.... I thought Jess's power awoke on the boat on the night of her 30th birthday. During her nightmare. I thought she used her power before the confrontation with Ylli to visit her parents at the Golden Horse. Althought she has no idea how she did that.


True. But I think that before the moment with Ylli her power hadn't wholly disclosed itself. But I agree with you, maybe Ylli thought that she was weak and fragile, an easy pray, and when he realized that she could have been a threat, he tried to kill her -- and then Jess suspended the natural flow of time...

The question that continues to pop up in my head is: if Gira is still alive (and I suppose yes, since she wrote to Jess' parents before her 30th birthday), why didn't she come and help Jess?

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Jen
Post subject: Re: Finished TCM? Discuss here! SPOILERS!
Post Posted: May 10, 2009 5:12 pm
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SPOILERS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!





AndreaDraco83 wrote:

The question that continues to pop up in my head is: if Gira is still alive (and I suppose yes, since she wrote to Jess' parents before her 30th birthday), why didn't she come and help Jess?


Here's a thought. Maybe she did. Maybe it was Gira that opened up the time/space bubble with Devlin and Jess. Remember, before that instance, Devlin hadn't seen his daughter since he handed her over to Ben and Lila 29-30 odd years ago. And Jess had never known her "sperm donor". lol

Who else could have brought them together? It leaves two options, Gira and Celeste. Or 3 options. Someone unknown to us at this point.

Is Celeste or Gira omniscient? Or Limited omniscient? OR is there someone else that has yet to be discovered???

whoa....
Jen

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AJPebble
Post subject: Re: Finished TCM? Discuss here! SPOILERS!
Post Posted: May 10, 2009 8:09 pm
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Just finished the game, and I was thoroughly entertained. It was seriously surreal playing a new game from Aaron and Chris after 10 years without playing a new one. I agree with the AdventureGamers.com review that the word association gameplay got a bit repetetive after a while, bit I didn't mind because I was so taken in by the story. I thought that the CGI cinematics worked really well, and in the back of my mind the whole time was "hmmm... this might actually work for a Tex game". Overall... good times.

What ending did you get? And what cards did you choose?

I survived by using the cards representing Devin and Celeste. I'm going to wait a while (hopefully long enough to forget some of the answers!) and replay the game to try out some different endings. I'm actually curious to see what a total failure ending looks like... like if you pick two totally unrelated cards.

What puzzles were your favorite and which one's busted your chops?

My favorite puzzles were probably the Star box one (which took me a little while) and the Ouija board ones. The one that drove me crazy was the 24 hours one, just because it was so tough. The feeling of pride when I actually figured it out was substantial. The way I finally got it was by making a list of all of the possible combinations that added up to 24 hours and trying them one at a time. The only game I skipped was the second rune rotator one... I just didn't have the patience at that point.

And seriously, the photo negative one and the newspaper one had me totally flipping out from joy/nostalgia... like "ZOMG these could totally be in a Tex game omgomgomg!!!". I was having serious flashbacks to the "Brother Marcus" note from UAKM and the Autotech photo from Pandora, among other examples.

I'm kind of surprised that some people were stumped by the calculator one. It was probably the easiest one for me, except for maybe the photo negative and newspaper ones.

Your favorite characters?

Ha... as if there's any answer other than the PI. I did like Jess and Devin quite a bit, though.

Favorite moments?/ Lines?

I was pretty amazed that until the last couple of chapters, the game was pretty non-linear and yet it still made sense. Kudos to the creators. I loved that there were little hints in some of the word association locations that pointed towards Chris and Aaron's love of film noir/detective stories/Tex, like the fedora hats or the Maltese Falcon poster. I was also really pleased with one word association in particular, from one of the last locations: Blood Money. I don't know if it was intentional, but "$106,000 Blood Money" is one of Dashiell Hammett's short detective stories, and it and the story "The Big Knockover" are frequently published together as the novel "Blood Money". It definitely had me thinking about Tex's reference to Hammett in the intro to Pandora.

Questions?

Not too many questions, though like some other people I was intrigued by Gira, since we didn't learn much about her.

Thanks to everyone involved for creating another wonderful game. And allow me to voice my support for this secret project "Fedora", whatever that may be... haha.

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Frank
Post subject: Re: Finished TCM? Discuss here! SPOILERS!
Post Posted: May 10, 2009 8:35 pm
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Waited for the patch, just finished it!

I picked the Hanged man and the Moon (mom and dad), which sent Ylli to some unknown state.

I really enjoyed the black/grey star puzzle, the family tree, as well as the shredded sheet and picture ones (very Tex-like, oh yeah!). The second rotating rune gave me a serious hard time. I'm still not sure what I ended up spelling!

Merryman and Devlin were my favourites, with a special mention for Sydney and David. Jess isn't fleshed out enough for a main character, yet, a side effect of the whole flashback mechanic and the POV story telling.

Favourite line came from Merryman: "Another coincidence. I have a lot of time, and no money."

Additional question: I'm curious about Jess' grandmother. The family tree is cut just so we can see Gira's name, but leaves out grandma. I wonder if she had, or will have, a part in any of this. We know nothing of hers or Gira's actions when Celeste gave birth, but surely both of them were around. Were they cast aside by Ylli and Celeste early on?

I also wonder how Sydney fits into what he calls "our" order. Is he some sort of conciliere to the order, or a husband who got initiated?

Minor comment: I'm a little confused by the timeline. Some of the back and forth strictly due to the order in which we pick cards made the story unnecessarily difficult to follow at times. I was rather glad the last two chapters were forced into linearity, a clever move on their part.

All in all, absolutely loved it, and am waiting for more. It's a very clever structure to mix good puzzles, entertaining storyline and a damn fine voice acting/musical score mix to cement the mood.

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Jen
Post subject: Re: Finished TCM? Discuss here! SPOILERS!
Post Posted: May 10, 2009 8:59 pm
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Quote:
I'm kind of surprised that some people were stumped by the calculator one. It was probably the easiest one for me, except for maybe the photo negative and newspaper ones.


I think I had such an easy time with the calculator puzzle was because as a kid I had tons of fun making stupid words like "Boobless" and such with it! :roll:

Quote:
From Frank:
I also wonder how Sydney fits into what he calls "our" order. Is he some sort of conciliere to the order, or a husband who got initiated?


Ooh, nice observation. (surreptitiously googling conciliere, not a CLUE) I think there's more to Sydney, for sure. 8)


And I have to say, seeing all these new faces on the board is very cool. Thanks to all that came out of the woodwork to discuss!

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Atomicvegetable
Post subject: Re: Finished TCM? Discuss here! SPOILERS!
Post Posted: May 11, 2009 3:27 am
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I just finished the game.

What ending did you get? And what cards did you choose?

I picked the cards corresponding with Devon and Celeste. Originally i wanted to pick Daniel and Merryman but decided to pick what i thought was a stronger link. Perhaps on my next playthrough.

What puzzles were your favorite and which one's busted your chops?


My favourite was the cypher. I loved how daunting it seemed, and it ended up being pretty easy, but with a fun two step process. I also enjoyed the calculator puzzle, the family tree, and the film (i love jigsaws).

Ones i hated were any to do with math (mainly the 5 star gem puzzle). That one took me quite a while. The one that took me the longest was the 'spot the difference' puzzle. I got 11 out of 12 pretty quickly, then spent like 2 hours off and on trying to find the last difference. I finally did, but man there were times i felt like skipping the puzzle. ^^

Your favorite characters?

Merryman and Devon. I felt sorry for Daniel. Ylli freaked me out.

Favorite moments?/ Lines?

The whole picking your cards at the end was a great brain bending decision. Also i remember when the room at the Golden Horse first loaded and there's all that blood everywhere. That was quite an impact for me.

Questions?

Gira, Ylli and Crawford have a lot of mystery surrounding them but my big question is this.

Jess is supposed to be the baby that Devon killed. Was the whole story of the baby's death just a cover-up while she was given to the Silloways, or is there some spiritual/occult answer to this question that the story didn't make clear? Near the end, the game really made me like Devon as a character, but this is kinda of a black cloud for me at the moment.

Comments

Loved the puzzles in this game. I was actually disappointed when the puzzles mostly went away in the later chapters. I'm gonna play again on gamer mode and see what's been done to shake things up.

A pretty solid and intriguing story if a little overly melodramatic (the music at reveals in the plot is mostly to blame for this).

It would remove some of the challenge, but i think the items on the item search screens should have labels (perhaps on easy mode). Many times i couldn't make out what an object was supposed to be or what name was used for it. My only real criticism of the game play

I will definitely be purchasing the sequel, and i plan to recommend the game on my podcast this week :)

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Atomicvegetable
Post subject: Re: Finished TCM? Discuss here! SPOILERS!
Post Posted: May 11, 2009 3:34 am
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oh and i have a theory that Sydney is the one other male twin who was born with powers (maybe he's Gira's twin).

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AndreaDraco83
Post subject: Re: Finished TCM? Discuss here! SPOILERS!
Post Posted: May 11, 2009 4:39 am
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Atomicvegetable wrote:
oh and i have a theory that Sydney is the one other male twin who was born with powers (maybe he's Gira's twin).


It would be such a great twist! :D

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plumgas
Post subject: Re: Finished TCM? Discuss here! SPOILERS!
Post Posted: May 11, 2009 5:36 am
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gee there must be something wrong with me, spot the difference was one of the puzzles I had no trouble with & playing tex murphy I had a lot of practise with the newspaper....

But the rest I was a complete washout.

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