PC or Mac?

It's compatibility and the future that makes me nervous. I love my programs, but I won't be able to use them forever, especially if I move to a new OS. Yet it's inevitable, and I still hang on to my Windows 2000 with white knuckles.

My Overseer hasn't come in the mail yet, but it will soon, and if I can't play it on my computer, I am going to cry, cry, cry. (And you all will hear it)

Vista is not that bad after you use it for a while. No where near as bad as people keep saying it is. Most of the kinks have been ironed out with Service Pack 1, and I don't have any issues with drivers and software.

I of course use a dual boot with XP as well, but am using XP less and less nowadays. In fact, the only time I use XP is to play a few games that seem to run better in XP and in 32-bit. But other than that I have slowly and safely transitioned to Vista.

Like I said, its not nearly as bad as people say it is, and XP went through the same thing when it came out, so it's not like its the end of the world. Also, when MS say they will no longer 'support' XP after 2010, it does not mean that every copy of XP will suddenly disintegrate into thin air... it just means that they will stop developing upon the platform (for updates, etc.), but I don't see that as much of an issue becuase if you have gotten XP Service Pack 3, you are pretty much completely up to date to the point where you won't need anything else to maintain the OS for as long as you want.

Windows 7 is going to be released in 2010 or later (they say 2009, but I highly doubt it will be)... and will mainly be Vista with a lot of the features that were canceled to be put back in.

If I were you I would not suddenly adopt such a pessimistic approach with Vista and MS in general. You should've been pessimistic to begin with. lol! ...but in all seriousness, XP went through the same hard road when it came out, and now it is one of their best OSes to date.

-Cub. =o)

Macs aren't anything special. But if you want user friendly then by all means. I would personally stick with XP for a good while. Just because they don't support it doesn't mean you can't use it. Also, I would recommend Linux, its free, its lightweight, its pretty gosh dern amazing.


Joliet, windows 2000...that pains me. It PAINS ME!

freepizza wrote:Also, I would recommend Linux, its free, its lightweight, its pretty gosh dern amazing.

...and you only need 7 sets of presidential launch codes in order to be able to run a piece of software. lol!

Linux is great, I will give you that... but it's something best left to the IT guys to fiddle with. The average end user does not want to fart around that much just to install a driver.

-Cub. =o)

Joliet_Jane - just finished Overseer on my XP. Is Win 2000 that much different? How about using DosBox on Win 2000 with Overseer. I am playing Under A Killing Moon and will soon start Pandora Directive all using DosBox. There is a terrific site on the web with downloads for using DosBox, instructions, etc. And of course the Tex M. Website with all its forums for the games is very helpful. Guys/gals there are very friendly. But then maybe you know all of this already?

You sure are encouraging re outlook for the future re MS and its versions of Windows. Will have to keep your note and read it ever so often:) I am going to white knuckle my XP for a long time to come also. Have not downloaded SP3 yet as some of the news I read said that it was not needed for the home user? True - do you know? Will keep my eye and ear out for more news about it.

And Linux - have heard about it off and on for some time. Must do some investigating. Will check out the web and see what I can find out. Not sure I understand it but one could download and put it on one's PC along with XP? I am not all that knowledgeable about PC stuff especiall when it gets very technical.

Thanks for the feedback re my query - so here's for keepin' on keepin' on.

SP3 is for everyone, including the home user. A batch of critical performance and security updates. No enhancements or changes to functionality though.

-Cub. =o)

I like both equally. That said, it's easier for me, as a part time college student, to build a PC, rather then spend the extra money on getting a Mac of similar hardware specifications. Also, more games are available on the PC, so that's always something to make me lean in that direction.

It depends what you think you will use the computer for. Here are some ideas I guess:

If you spend your time playing games like minesweeper or even love playing games, get a pc.

If you want to be creative and make things like movies, cards, if you take a lot of photos, get a mac.

Both run microsoft office and Open office (on mac it's Neo office)
Macs can also run windows, so if you need that all important program, you can just boot into windows. Macs can also see windows drives so you can navigate to your windows files from your mac.

I have a mac which runs windows and have a couple of games on it, though the range on pcs is better, but then if you like games that much I'd say get a Wii or playstation. I only use the windows side of it now to do things like rotate video files taken on my camera. I load it up about once every two months.

I was a die hard windows fan but now prefer the mac - it loads up more quickly and it all just works together. You can print any file to PDFs so you can then email things to people without worrying about compatibility, and you can print anything as a pdf, including web pages. If you want to export something from iTunes into a movie, it's about two clicks, but if you don't use creative stuff that might not be a selling point.

Vista runs fine if you have the correct hardware in your computer. Vista is a Resource Hog, You should have at least a 2Ghz Dual Core Processor, 2 GBs of Memory, 256 MB Video Card, and a 500 GB Hard Drive. Alot of compatibility issues have been resolved, but there are still some annoying issues.

I believe alot of the negative feedback is due to sub $1000 PCs. I would also recommend either Vista Business or Vista Ultimate not Vista Home. Vista Ultimate would be like buying Windows XP and the Microsoft Plus! packs at the same time.

It'll be easier to find specific software to suit your personal requirements with a Windows based system. This is especially true for newer games. However, Windows is also a spyware and virus magnet.

As far as Microsoft releasing new OS versions, Apple also does this. You'll have to pay for the upgrades and at some point your hardware may exclude you from an upgrade. For that matter every Linux Distro also comes out with new versions, but they are more forgiving when it comes to hardware requirements.

Don't dismiss the MAC. Go to an Apple Store and test one out then take a look around at the software available to see if you'll be able to do the things you would expect, and at what price. Things like opening a Microsoft Office document, spreadsheet.

I regularly use various Linux Distributions. The one that I think is easiest for people crossing over from Windows is called Ubuntu. It has good community forums for support. By no means is it perfect and there are alot of issues that can be really annoying particularily undocumented changes to packages between versions. EVERY release has made me change what packages I installed and how for my normal every day use. Also, if their is a particular windows program you need, there are no guarantees it'll work in linux.

joliet_jane wrote:It's compatibility and the future that makes me nervous. I love my programs, but I won't be able to use them forever, especially if I move to a new OS. Yet it's inevitable, and I still hang on to my Windows 2000 with white knuckles.

My Overseer hasn't come in the mail yet, but it will soon, and if I can't play it on my computer, I am going to cry, cry, cry. (And you all will hear it)

Overseer CD version works fine for me in Vista. I was also able to run the DVD version, but I removed it as I didn't like having to install DVD Express.

Cubase wrote:

freepizza wrote:Also, I would recommend Linux, its free, its lightweight, its pretty gosh dern amazing.

...and you only need 7 sets of presidential launch codes in order to be able to run a piece of software. lol!

Linux is great, I will give you that... but it's something best left to the IT guys to fiddle with. The average end user does not want to fart around that much just to install a driver.

-Cub. =o)

Cub, you should try Ubuntu 8.04 if you get the free time. I have a Geforce 8800GT after the install finishes just click on "Enable Restricted Drivers". It also recognized my Logitech MX Laser mouse's back and forward buttons. It was the first time I didn't have to edit a bunch of config files.

EDIT - Actually that's only partially true, up until Ubuntu 8.04 I would always copy over my working config files into the new installations.

Demonlawyer wrote: If you want to be creative and make things like movies, cards, if you take a lot of photos, get a mac.

I'm sorry David but that's utter nonsense.

No offence to you of course mate... but it annoys me how Mac have been using this crap as one of their selling points for yonks, and the fact of the matter is: it's simply not true.

There are hundreds of apps for the PC already out there that enable any PC user to create movies... from basic ones for the average family user (like Windows Movie Maker that comes free with any version XP and is brainlessly easy to use), to high end like Avid and Premiere.

And in regards to photos, what is it that Mac users use to do their photo imaging? Why Photoshop of course!... but for some reason Apple seems to think that Photoshop is Mac exclusive? Which again, is not the case.

Demonlawyer wrote: You can print any file to PDFs so you can then email things to people without worrying about compatibility, and you can print anything as a pdf, including web pages. If you want to export something from iTunes into a movie, it's about two clicks, but if you don't use creative stuff that might not be a selling point.

I've been able to do PDF printing and exporting/importing natively on PC ever since I can remember.


Anyway, I don't want to get into a Mac vs PC thing here, and as I said I am not having a dig at you David... but it bugs me to no end when Mac tries to tell the user what they want and need, claiming to be the pioneers of creativity... and being a creative in the type of industry Mac tries to tell me I NEED a Mac to be a part of, it pisses me off big time.

Yes I love photos, yes I love movies, yes I love music... but NO I don't need a Mac!

-Cub. =o)


P.S. Maybe I am just a little sour after I was once rejected for a job (a fair while ago) when they said (and I quote) "You have such an impressive portfolio, one of the best we've seen so far... but it seems as thought you are PC oriented, in which case I don't imagine how you could manage some of the stuff we do on the Mac". This was despite using the same software!... but that's wanker academy for you and exactly what I am talking about. They are convincing the people (and successfully when it comes to design houses) that unless you use a Mac for creative stuff, you are out of contention.... that's one of the reasons why I chose to become independent.

haha funnily enough I was wondering what you'd think when I wrote that Cub, no offence taken at all, though having used a lot for the pc and the mac, the mac software I think is very user friendly - in that once you work out how to use functions on one program, the same functions work on all the others.

The advantage of a pc over a mac is that there are tons of programs whereas there's not as much software for the mac - possibly because so much of it comes preinstalled that you don't need extra stuff unless you are going to do some serious editing.

Windows movie maker is easy to use, and has functions that iMovie doesn't, but if you then want to create a DVD menu with DVD extras and the like, you have to use another program which might not want to import things the right way etc. For someone like Cub it would be pretty easy, but for the average user it's nice to just hit one button which then loads up the next program, or to be able to view all your still images if you want to add one, rather than use 'open' and choose a file from a file name.

The photo thing I think does have some good arguments. Photoshop elements I think is better on the PC as it has a really good indexing system, but the way the mac displays colours I understand is different on mac to on a pc - look at a normal mac screensaver compared to a normal pc - I'm assuming your average pc and average mac here. The colours just look more vivid. Well, that's my opinion anyway. Maybe the screen's just brighter

When I made some PDFs for this site, I remember having to find a PDF making program on the internet as I didn't want to pay an absurd sum for Adobe. There are programs for this on the pc, but on the mac it's all built in. It sounds like on a pc you need to find and install all this extra software from the internet.

BTW no offence taken at all, feel free to say more. I like a good debate.

I think a PC has good things going for it if you want to do more technical stuff or have programs that have more features, but creating things on a mac just feels easier. I spent ages trying to learn how to use Adobe after effects and Premiere, and whilst iMovie doesn't have anywhere near the functionality, it's enough for someone like me who wants to stick a movie on, edit it, add a soundtrack, overlay any extra audio and burn it.

But the biggest selling point to me is still the fact that I can run both systems on a mac, so I get the best of both worlds.

Now I'll get my hard hat and duck under the desk again.....

Demonlawyer wrote: The photo thing I think does have some good arguments. Photoshop elements I think is better on the PC as it has a really good indexing system, but the way the mac displays colours I understand is different on mac to on a pc - look at a normal mac screensaver compared to a normal pc - I'm assuming your average pc and average mac here. The colours just look more vivid. Well, that's my opinion anyway. Maybe the screen's just brighter

Well every computer contains colour profiles. Mac has its own colour profile, and so does PC... but you can load a Mac colour profile onto a PC if you so wish (and vice versa). However, the industry standard colour profile for graphic design is Adobe RGB 1998, which is neither a Mac or PC profile, and once the software is installed becomes the default. Regardless, the comparison on vivid colours between the two platforms is a moot point becuase a) its often subjective b) colour profiles can be adjusted with a few clicks and c) brighter colours don't always (and often don't) represent real world colour replication. Also note that if you are referring to the Mac monitors as being 'brighter' and more 'vivid', you might be interested to know that Apple does not manufacture their monitor panels... they are made by the same companies that make PC panels. LG.Philips have been manufacturing the same panels used on both Dell and Apple Cinema Display monitors for yonks. But then again why am I even saying "Mac and PC monitors", when there is no such thing because any monitor will work on any system regardless... thus making the monitor's 'vividness' nothing to do with the computer itself.

Demonlawyer wrote:When I made some PDFs for this site, I remember having to find a PDF making program on the internet as I didn't want to pay an absurd sum for Adobe. There are programs for this on the pc, but on the mac it's all built in. It sounds like on a pc you need to find and install all this extra software from the internet.

Half and half really. Yes you do need the extra software... but not you don't need to manually install it. When you come across a PDF for the first time, the computer will recognise the need to automatically download the PDF plug-in... once it is done, you will have all the PDF functionality you explained.

Demonlawyer wrote:I think a PC has good things going for it if you want to do more technical stuff or have programs that have more features, but creating things on a mac just feels easier. I spent ages trying to learn how to use Adobe after effects and Premiere, and whilst iMovie doesn't have anywhere near the functionality, it's enough for someone like me who wants to stick a movie on, edit it, add a soundtrack, overlay any extra audio and burn it.

Yes that's true... and while I can totally agree that if you are a casual user who just wants to get a certain task done without hassle then Mac is a fine choice. But my gripe is with Apple's ignorant advertising campaign, when they not only say Mac is simple to use, but they bash the hell out of PC for being a useless platform with no creativity headroom whatsoever. The fact is, both are amazingly powerful systems... but Apple chose to corner the market of ignorant users (which makes up for a lot of users!)... but of course I don't place you in this category David becuase you evidently understand both systems well enough to make a valued judgment.

Demonlawyer wrote:But the biggest selling point to me is still the fact that I can run both systems on a mac, so I get the best of both worlds.

Which is a great move to encourage PC users to adopt Mac. But think about it: if you are the type of PC user that needs to still run PC based apps in Windows despite having a Mac computer, then you are obviously a more experienced user, and should understand that most software is available on both platforms. By that same token you are experienced enough to not bother with Mac's "lifestyle apps" due to their simplicity compared the the PC equivalents you should be used to, so why move to Mac at all?

Demonlawyer wrote:Now I'll get my hard hat and duck under the desk again.....

Don't be silly. You don't need a hard hat if you are already under your desk!


-Cub. =o)

joliet_jane wrote: My Overseer hasn't come in the mail yet, but it will soon, and if I can't play it on my computer, I am going to cry, cry, cry. (And you all will hear it)

Well, I got it today and so far it looks like I'm gonna crrrrryyyyyyy... But I'm not giving up the fight yet. I'll try installing Windows 98 if I have to.

You can get a Mac and have the best of both worlds actually. The newest version of OS X, Apple's operating system, ships standard with a program called boot camp. The program allows you to install XP or Vista on your Mac and simply choose which OS to use when the system boots up. It used to be a real issue for gamers that Macs lacked in the game library department but this solves this issue. I grew up on DOS and Windows and still use XP now but I also have a lot of experience with OS X and have to say gaming aside it is a far superior OS. I plan on going back to a Mac with my next system and never would have left the platform had it been for a laptop requirement for college and a lack of funds at the tume to get the Macbook Pro over the cheaper Dell that I am currently using.

Furthermore you can run all of the Tex games minus Overseer without needing to boot into Windows since Dosbox works on OS X as well. I had all of the games running at the time and they worked great. It's defiantly worth stopping by an Apple store and checking out what they have right now. That's just my 2 cents.

Link:
http://www.apple.com/macosx/features/bootcamp.html