Last edited by litlkeck on November 12, 2008 • 8:06 am, edited 2 times in total.
Okay, here is the situation. Today I got offered a new job in Columbus, where I want to live. And, this is perfect--ideally because I'm applied to OSU for Graduate School in Computer Science and this job would pay for it. This job is also a nice raise, and I already make a very fine wage for a 25 yr old, essentially, this seems like a dream.
BUT. I have a great job now. I love my boss. I love my coworkers. I could go to WSU, right across the street which has a great Computer Science program, and my current job would pay for WSU. So, I could stay here. I am good at the job I have now, and I could see myself doing it for a long time. I have no fear of the known, but what if I suck at the new job or I don't like it. :/
I don't know what I'm necessarily going to get in Columbus, but I love the city, I've been there 100s of times in my life. My father was a Buckeye, my oldest brother was a Buckeye, and I've wanted to get my PhD from OSU for a long time. And I have to get cracking on my Masters now in order to get my PhD
Okay, right now, it seems like an easy decision, I'll admit. I mean, ya, I have it nice in Beavercreek, but it's not a city for younger people. My chances of finding a wife here are far slimmer and there really isn't a lot to do. A bigger, younger, city where I WANT to live and a big raise. I think I'd be a fool not to take it.
HERE IS THE BIG KICKER. OSU does not like Part-Time students in their CSE program (Computer Science and Engineering). I've been told, despite having two Bachelor degrees--Mathematics and Computer Science--and a stellar GPA 3.5+, my chances aren't that great of getting in simply because Professor's don't have time for research work around a student who is only taking 1-2 classes a quarter, as well as I can't do a Graduate Assistance because I'll be working full time. I'm not an ideal candidate.
There really aren't other options for good Graduate programs in Computer Science in Columbus. At least none that would ultimately prepare me for a PhD program, i.e. only OSU has a Masters and a PhD in Computer Science, and going to a Grad School that doesn't have a PhD program isn't favorable for PhD admittance to another institution.
Money isn't everything, and it isn't really extremely important to me. But, let's be real, it's the right environment for me. It's a much better economic climate for my profession, I could in 3-5 years be working on something that I view as VERY COOL. I want to live in Columbus--most of my friends around my area have moved away in the three years since I finished my Undergraduate work, and I have a good circle of friends who live in Columbus now. And, I feel like I could put myself in a position to start a family in Columbus. I'd like to work on finding a wife as well
A saving grace is that this job told me I could wait 2-3 weeks before giving them a decision, to hear from OSU. So, I don't have to make the decision without knowing my fate at OSU. But, I need to think this out now, in a manner that allows me to make that decision if the time comes.
I really am ... remiss about all this. It's basically give up a safe station in life that guarantees me a chance to go to Grad School Right now. Or, take the job in the city I want to live in, even if it means school is on hold for a while, although I'll definitely keep applying to OSU until the LET ME IN. I'm only 25, but at the same time, if I can't go back until I'm 30 to start Grad School ... I'll be 40+ before I finish my doctorate.
What do you all think? I'm stumped. I'll let the poll decide for me!!!
~Keck
BUT. I have a great job now. I love my boss. I love my coworkers. I could go to WSU, right across the street which has a great Computer Science program, and my current job would pay for WSU. So, I could stay here. I am good at the job I have now, and I could see myself doing it for a long time. I have no fear of the known, but what if I suck at the new job or I don't like it. :/
I don't know what I'm necessarily going to get in Columbus, but I love the city, I've been there 100s of times in my life. My father was a Buckeye, my oldest brother was a Buckeye, and I've wanted to get my PhD from OSU for a long time. And I have to get cracking on my Masters now in order to get my PhD
Okay, right now, it seems like an easy decision, I'll admit. I mean, ya, I have it nice in Beavercreek, but it's not a city for younger people. My chances of finding a wife here are far slimmer and there really isn't a lot to do. A bigger, younger, city where I WANT to live and a big raise. I think I'd be a fool not to take it.
HERE IS THE BIG KICKER. OSU does not like Part-Time students in their CSE program (Computer Science and Engineering). I've been told, despite having two Bachelor degrees--Mathematics and Computer Science--and a stellar GPA 3.5+, my chances aren't that great of getting in simply because Professor's don't have time for research work around a student who is only taking 1-2 classes a quarter, as well as I can't do a Graduate Assistance because I'll be working full time. I'm not an ideal candidate.
There really aren't other options for good Graduate programs in Computer Science in Columbus. At least none that would ultimately prepare me for a PhD program, i.e. only OSU has a Masters and a PhD in Computer Science, and going to a Grad School that doesn't have a PhD program isn't favorable for PhD admittance to another institution.
Money isn't everything, and it isn't really extremely important to me. But, let's be real, it's the right environment for me. It's a much better economic climate for my profession, I could in 3-5 years be working on something that I view as VERY COOL. I want to live in Columbus--most of my friends around my area have moved away in the three years since I finished my Undergraduate work, and I have a good circle of friends who live in Columbus now. And, I feel like I could put myself in a position to start a family in Columbus. I'd like to work on finding a wife as well
A saving grace is that this job told me I could wait 2-3 weeks before giving them a decision, to hear from OSU. So, I don't have to make the decision without knowing my fate at OSU. But, I need to think this out now, in a manner that allows me to make that decision if the time comes.
I really am ... remiss about all this. It's basically give up a safe station in life that guarantees me a chance to go to Grad School Right now. Or, take the job in the city I want to live in, even if it means school is on hold for a while, although I'll definitely keep applying to OSU until the LET ME IN. I'm only 25, but at the same time, if I can't go back until I'm 30 to start Grad School ... I'll be 40+ before I finish my doctorate.
What do you all think? I'm stumped. I'll let the poll decide for me!!!
~Keck
2 polls in one night. Where's Dr Phil?!
Seems like you're getting nervous over a lot of "I've heard" and "I was told".
Knowledge, as usual, is key to your dilemma here.
What do you actually know about the job? Do you have the competence for it, or the ability to learn what you need to know but don't right away? If so, stop worrying about how it would go over there.
What do you know about the conditions over there? If you don't know enough to make up an initial feeling, find out more.
What do you know about future boss/bosses/collegues? Who have you met so far and what were your first impressions?
What do you REALLY know about OSU and your eventual situation over there? Have you contacted teachers/program managers or are you going by ex/current students? Making up contact before actually applying is a surprisingly simple way to put a face on a demand and fill up the blanks left by an application. If the teachers in question know of your situation before you show up and ask for a seat, it makes the process a whole lot smoother. Knowledge works both ways.
As for your current job, after getting your master or PhD, were you planning on actually keeping it? If not, leaving now or later won't change a thing in the long run. You might switch for something you don't like right now, but it's a moot point considering you'd leaver either anyway as soon as you're done with school.
You have the luxury of time, but in short amount, so make up the most of it. Get the info you need to make a thought-of decision that's based on facts.
Seems like you're getting nervous over a lot of "I've heard" and "I was told".
Knowledge, as usual, is key to your dilemma here.
What do you actually know about the job? Do you have the competence for it, or the ability to learn what you need to know but don't right away? If so, stop worrying about how it would go over there.
What do you know about the conditions over there? If you don't know enough to make up an initial feeling, find out more.
What do you know about future boss/bosses/collegues? Who have you met so far and what were your first impressions?
What do you REALLY know about OSU and your eventual situation over there? Have you contacted teachers/program managers or are you going by ex/current students? Making up contact before actually applying is a surprisingly simple way to put a face on a demand and fill up the blanks left by an application. If the teachers in question know of your situation before you show up and ask for a seat, it makes the process a whole lot smoother. Knowledge works both ways.
As for your current job, after getting your master or PhD, were you planning on actually keeping it? If not, leaving now or later won't change a thing in the long run. You might switch for something you don't like right now, but it's a moot point considering you'd leaver either anyway as soon as you're done with school.
You have the luxury of time, but in short amount, so make up the most of it. Get the info you need to make a thought-of decision that's based on facts.
Part-Time Nomad
If this company really wants you, they'll respect your drive for furthering your Education and hold the job for you... Unless of course by not filling the job means the company goes under...
I didn't read your complete post, so you may have answered this already, how much longer do you have to finish school???
I didn't read your complete post, so you may have answered this already, how much longer do you have to finish school???
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It's good you pose these questions, as it allows me to clarify, as I do know the answers to many of these already.
Thanks for your feedback Frank, you really bring up some excellent thoughts. If I hadn't already looked into these things, I can definitely see how this SHOULD affect my decision. Unfortunately, I have to pretty much be idle. I talked with a head of the program today, after my interviews, at OSU, and they said they would try to reach their decision on me by the end of next week, but they couldn't promise it won't take 3.
~Keck
The work is similar to what I do now, albeit more involved. But, it's also more mathematics based, and that's why they want me, given my math degree, and I really am probably a great fit for them. I don't think the work will be too hard, and I did like the people I met. But, I know what I have now, this is more like "jitters over something new," not "I don't know what I"m getting." I think I'd do fine there, but I don't have any guaranteesFrank wrote: What do you actually know about the job? Do you have the competence for it, or the ability to learn what you need to know but don't right away? If so, stop worrying about how it would go over there.
What do you know about the conditions over there? If you don't know enough to make up an initial feeling, find out more.
I met literally everyone today in a MASSIVE 3.5 hour interview. I was vetted rather heavily with two phone interviews before this. I think the boss here is a pretty nice guy, and he was definitely willing, although it was his main concern, to let me have a somewhat flexible schedule, should I be unable to get a class I need during a "non-working" hour.Frank wrote: What do you know about future boss/bosses/collegues? Who have you met so far and what were your first impressions?
I'm very familiar with the program. I've spoken to the department head, and two professors who specialize in the areas I'm interested in. I was told first hand that while my academic profile is strong, I am not a strong candidate given that I will not be able to go full time or commit to a research program.Frank wrote: What do you REALLY know about OSU and your eventual situation over there? Have you contacted teachers/program managers or are you going by ex/current students? Making up contact before actually applying is a surprisingly simple way to put a face on a demand and fill up the blanks left by an application. If the teachers in question know of your situation before you show up and ask for a seat, it makes the process a whole lot smoother. Knowledge works both ways.
When I ultimately get my PhD, I don't plan to program at all, but rather be a professor. That being said, if I go while I work, we're talking something that is 9-12 years away. I have to work until thenFrank wrote: As for your current job, after getting your master or PhD, were you planning on actually keeping it? If not, leaving now or later won't change a thing in the long run. You might switch for something you don't like right now, but it's a moot point considering you'd leaver either anyway as soon as you're done with school.
I think I have the info. I almost wish I didn't, as that would give me something to do other than just be anxiousFrank wrote: You have the luxury of time, but in short amount, so make up the most of it. Get the info you need to make a thought-of decision that's based on facts.
Thanks for your feedback Frank, you really bring up some excellent thoughts. If I hadn't already looked into these things, I can definitely see how this SHOULD affect my decision. Unfortunately, I have to pretty much be idle. I talked with a head of the program today, after my interviews, at OSU, and they said they would try to reach their decision on me by the end of next week, but they couldn't promise it won't take 3.
~Keck
The company will wait until I know from OSU. It will take 3-4 years to finish at OSU for Graduate work, they have a ridiculous 60 credit mandate for Grad School completion, most places are 45-48. After that, a PhD program can take 3-6 years for a full time student. It probably will take me 5-7 :/ So, 8-11 more years of school? It's a good thing I liked schoolBafitis wrote:If this company really wants you, they'll respect your drive for furthering your Education and hold the job for you... Unless of course by not filling the job means the company goes under...
I didn't read your complete post, so you may have answered this already, how much longer do you have to finish school???
~Keck
Then I'm afraid I'm the one who doesn't know enough to help you out I've never actually had to deal with such strict program and acceptance requirements, and it's the first I hear of a program offering part time but still being fussy over whether or not they'd let you in. I suppose the end verdict is strictly monetary for them, something that doesn't really exist in our universities here.
With the answers you've provided there is no other reason for you to hesitate than whether or not you can make it to OSU. There are no guarantees, whatever you decide. Your current job could go bad over time for various reasons, the main one being that everything changes, so don't think that staying in your position can guarantee a better future than the unknown situation over at the other company.
Considering what you want out of the next years, there's not much left to do than wait for an answer from OSU. Although some people say that if A or B doesn't suit you, there is necessarily a C to be found. I've yet to find out if that's actually true.
I've never actually had to deal with such strict program and acceptance requirements, and it's the first I hear of a program offering part time but still being fussy over whether or not they'd let you in. I suppose the end verdict is strictly monetary for them, something that doesn't really exist in our universities here.With the answers you've provided there is no other reason for you to hesitate than whether or not you can make it to OSU. There are no guarantees, whatever you decide. Your current job could go bad over time for various reasons, the main one being that everything changes, so don't think that staying in your position can guarantee a better future than the unknown situation over at the other company.
Considering what you want out of the next years, there's not much left to do than wait for an answer from OSU. Although some people say that if A or B doesn't suit you, there is necessarily a C to be found. I've yet to find out if that's actually true.
Part-Time Nomad
Yeah I know how much longer a PhD is... One of the reasons I didn't continue schooling and go for it... I had had enough of school... lol
One of a couple of ways to handle your choices... You could take the job in hopes they will pay for you to go back to school at a slightly later date...
Go ahead and finish with your schooling, you'll be worth more with more education and if they can't see that, I'm sure another company will...
Or forget about school and go ahead with the job... From what you've said, it sounds like it will pay handsomely, there are people doing a lot worse, I see them daily, unfortunately...
So there are pretty much the 3 options... Which one does your Heart lean towards more??? And which one does your Brain leans towards more???
And which ever one neither points towards, that's the one you should probably do... lol
This is more of a joke, just tryin' to lighten the mood...
Seriously, I would have a more detailed discussion with the management involved with the company that wants to hire you... See if they are willing to pay for your schooling a year or 2 or maybe 3 or 4 down the line... If education is that important to you {because it sounds like you've got plenty already, of course education is like money, you can never have enough}, but if Education is that important to you, make it clear to them when you talk that it's not something 18 to 24 months down the line that you are going to forget about...
It all boils down to how important that extra step in education is to you... Not a Resume or the employer, because it sounds like they could careless if you get any more education, but how important it is to you...
Do you have any Counselors or Advisers on your campus that you could possibly speak with??? Never hurts to have too many opinions...
But for you, it sounds like it's basically a Win-Win situation, no matter which way you go... On one hand you currently have a job that is paying the bills, you are continuing your education {which can never hurt}... On the other hand you have a company that wants to give you a job that will by far pay more than the bills, but requires putting off education for the time being or depending how deep you get with the company you may never go back to further your education... But like I said before, it sounds like you plenty as it is...
You mentioned something about liking the people and the company you currently work for... All I can say to that is make sure you leave A Very Strong Bridge if you choose to go with the New Job... Because if for some reason you don't like it or they end up downsizing and you are the first to go or for any other reason it doesn't work out, you'll most likely want to go back to finish that education and you'll most likely need that job back as well...
Definitely A BIG Decision To Make... Don't make it lightly...
One of a couple of ways to handle your choices... You could take the job in hopes they will pay for you to go back to school at a slightly later date...
Go ahead and finish with your schooling, you'll be worth more with more education and if they can't see that, I'm sure another company will...
Or forget about school and go ahead with the job... From what you've said, it sounds like it will pay handsomely, there are people doing a lot worse, I see them daily, unfortunately...
So there are pretty much the 3 options... Which one does your Heart lean towards more??? And which one does your Brain leans towards more???
And which ever one neither points towards, that's the one you should probably do... lol
This is more of a joke, just tryin' to lighten the mood...
Seriously, I would have a more detailed discussion with the management involved with the company that wants to hire you... See if they are willing to pay for your schooling a year or 2 or maybe 3 or 4 down the line... If education is that important to you {because it sounds like you've got plenty already, of course education is like money, you can never have enough}, but if Education is that important to you, make it clear to them when you talk that it's not something 18 to 24 months down the line that you are going to forget about...
It all boils down to how important that extra step in education is to you... Not a Resume or the employer, because it sounds like they could careless if you get any more education, but how important it is to you...
Do you have any Counselors or Advisers on your campus that you could possibly speak with??? Never hurts to have too many opinions...
But for you, it sounds like it's basically a Win-Win situation, no matter which way you go... On one hand you currently have a job that is paying the bills, you are continuing your education {which can never hurt}... On the other hand you have a company that wants to give you a job that will by far pay more than the bills, but requires putting off education for the time being or depending how deep you get with the company you may never go back to further your education... But like I said before, it sounds like you plenty as it is...
You mentioned something about liking the people and the company you currently work for... All I can say to that is make sure you leave A Very Strong Bridge if you choose to go with the New Job... Because if for some reason you don't like it or they end up downsizing and you are the first to go or for any other reason it doesn't work out, you'll most likely want to go back to finish that education and you'll most likely need that job back as well...
Definitely A BIG Decision To Make... Don't make it lightly...
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They are both in the same line of work: Software Engineer.lotus_j wrote:What line of work? What type of growth does the job have compared to the other?
My current job has 0 room for management potential, but plenty for rising the food the chain and level promotions, essentially raises/promotions. This other job has room for the same but also potential for management work, which I don't know if I'd even be interested in, but it's nice to think I could completely climb the ladder.
Bafitis, the new job will also pay for school. The issue is OSU and their unwillingness to work with Part-Time students. There really isn't another university in the area that would prepare me much for a PhD program. I haven't even been refused at OSU, but after a few talks with them, the words "not an ideal candidate" have come up.
If OSU accepts me, this all works out. But, if they don't, I'm basically stuck with the BIG decision.
~Keck
That's why I said in a couple of different ways... How Important Is The Furthering Of Your Education To You???
Maybe you could talk to them about Paying for school where you'll be a full time student and when you are finished with school agree to work for them for X amount of years... Kind of a Contract thing...
They do that in some counties here in Maryland for Teachers... They will pay for the school, but you have to agree to work for that county school system for 3 years or something like that...
Works out in a lot of fields... I did that with one of my employees, I'm glad to say that she is still working for me and her contract died at the beginning of last year...
It's not one of the best ways to get employees, because if they don't end up liking the job they are still stuck with it, but it works out sometimes... She is the only one I've done it for so far... Seeing how it worked out, I've considered it for future use...
What kind of time pressure are you under to come up with a decision???
Maybe you could talk to them about Paying for school where you'll be a full time student and when you are finished with school agree to work for them for X amount of years... Kind of a Contract thing...
They do that in some counties here in Maryland for Teachers... They will pay for the school, but you have to agree to work for that county school system for 3 years or something like that...
Works out in a lot of fields... I did that with one of my employees, I'm glad to say that she is still working for me and her contract died at the beginning of last year...
It's not one of the best ways to get employees, because if they don't end up liking the job they are still stuck with it, but it works out sometimes... She is the only one I've done it for so far... Seeing how it worked out, I've considered it for future use...
What kind of time pressure are you under to come up with a decision???
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They are willing to let me wait until I hear from OSU, and OSU told me I should know in the next 2-3 weeks. So, I don't have to make a final decision until I know all the facts before me. But, since it is a big decision, I feel like I should have it thought out, so that I don't have to make a big decision in like 2 days, should OSU turn me down.
~Keck
~Keck
Oh cool, me too, and I've actually been looking to head to Columbus Ohio as well - weird.litlkeck wrote:They are both in the same line of work: Software Engineer.
What's your forte?
Bests, Rockefeller
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So essentially you want to be prepared for the eventuality that OSU turns you down? If it was your question from the start, excuse my foolishness and inability to read properly
Then it opens a whole new box of questions.
Do you see yourself staying in your current location for the next 10 years? How much do you want to leave for Columbus and what are the motivations for this move? You mentioned the city being a better place for a guy your age, so wouldn't the point of moving there being moot should you decide to wait before you're done with school? Let's say you stick around and complete the schooling, do you plan to move afterwards?
I'm asking because, while everything within reason is usually possible, it's a whole lot easier to move now that you have little obligations. A lot of things happen in ten years, especially in that particular age bracket. What seems like a breeze now could easily become out of the question after a few events.
One thing I'd mention instead of just asking questions is the opportunity that comes with the big raise, should you be responsible with it. Obviously you are able to live and survive with the kind of money you currently make, whatever it is. An additional 20k means a LOT of potential for savings at such a young age. Education is important, but so is the combination of money and time. The promise of a good salary in fifteen years isn't necessarily better than a good salary now, should you save the maximum while you can. It would also make it much more easier to go back to school and complete your master and PhD at an older age, should it remain a priority for you. Doc is a good example of a late boomer who's now teaching the stuff he enjoys.
10 years of extra studying and less money is a lot of time, so you might want to get the calculator out and see what you can reasonably save within that time and see if it's worth it to take the job and put the studies aside, should OSU refuse you for now. While it's never too late to start making money, it's always easier to go back to school than it is to start saving.
Then it opens a whole new box of questions.
Do you see yourself staying in your current location for the next 10 years? How much do you want to leave for Columbus and what are the motivations for this move? You mentioned the city being a better place for a guy your age, so wouldn't the point of moving there being moot should you decide to wait before you're done with school? Let's say you stick around and complete the schooling, do you plan to move afterwards?
I'm asking because, while everything within reason is usually possible, it's a whole lot easier to move now that you have little obligations. A lot of things happen in ten years, especially in that particular age bracket. What seems like a breeze now could easily become out of the question after a few events.
One thing I'd mention instead of just asking questions is the opportunity that comes with the big raise, should you be responsible with it. Obviously you are able to live and survive with the kind of money you currently make, whatever it is. An additional 20k means a LOT of potential for savings at such a young age. Education is important, but so is the combination of money and time. The promise of a good salary in fifteen years isn't necessarily better than a good salary now, should you save the maximum while you can. It would also make it much more easier to go back to school and complete your master and PhD at an older age, should it remain a priority for you. Doc is a good example of a late boomer who's now teaching the stuff he enjoys.
10 years of extra studying and less money is a lot of time, so you might want to get the calculator out and see what you can reasonably save within that time and see if it's worth it to take the job and put the studies aside, should OSU refuse you for now. While it's never too late to start making money, it's always easier to go back to school than it is to start saving.
Part-Time Nomad