Umm, I just figured I'd point out that not once did I imply that we saved the world. As a matter of fact, looking back over my post, I'm trying to see how you came to that conclusion, but anyway ...Demonlawyer wrote: And as for the US saving the world in WWII, I wouldn't quite put it like that - the US didn't want to enter the second world war and avoided it for as long as they could until Japan bombed them. By the time the US troops arrived in Dunkirk the tide had already turned and we were pushing Jerry back. The US involvement definitely helped and was very much needed, but the US did not save the world.
If I did imply that "America saved the world", I apologize, because I didn't mean to in any fashion. I was merely pointing out that when we eventually did come and help, that we were on the side of just reasoning, and our intentions weren't selfish. And it seems every war after ... didn't have a good reason for it. Simply put, America isn't the wholesome country we used to be.
I could argue for hours on the benefit of Patton over McArthur, but hey ... that's ancient history.
I'm not fat ... I'm festively plump.
...And just today I saw a newscast which mentioned criticisms towards Bush for foreign aid greatly exceeding domestic.
I hope somebody in New Orleans writes a book about the situation that is there now. Not to be callous but it sounds like an intersting post-apocalyptic -like environment. Reminds me of On the Beach.
I hope somebody in New Orleans writes a book about the situation that is there now. Not to be callous but it sounds like an intersting post-apocalyptic -like environment. Reminds me of On the Beach.
People are crazy and times are strange
I'm locked in tight, I'm out of range
I used to care, but things have changed
-Bob Dylan
I'm locked in tight, I'm out of range
I used to care, but things have changed
-Bob Dylan
Hi all i cant stay long my hard drive is busted so im ab(using) another PC i could lend for a few hours to check mail and stuff.
I am not trying to be pro buch or against him nor pro american or against im just writing what the picture of this mess is i saw here in the netherlands.
Let me start by wiching all in New Orleans and who know peaple in those parts all my prayers and hope.
As the pictures started coming in here in holland this is what amazed me the most
I live in holland with is also like New Orleans almost completly beneath sea level. we have had our water problems too but the last time we had it they goverment built a new damms dikes (pardon my spelling) that would last forever, but it seems the damms in New Orleans where only build as a means that had calculated in a failure rate of one in 30 years. I dont know if this is trou but it sounded so wierd becouse our coverment built them to last for ever.
Second thing that got my atention was the fact that huge amounts of money was spent on terorism. Protection equipment to fight fires emergancy hospitals u name it. but when the storm was over all those recourses where not used it seems a waste of human life to have not used em.
Third we got the inpresion the american goverment was more bisy enforsing law by shooting down looters then saving peaple.
Im not saying that if they only helped peaple noone would loot becouse i also saw that peaple trying to fix one of the damms got shot at by gangs. How wierd can it get shooting at the peaple who are trying to save u.
peaple from that sports palace having to break into a drug store just to be able to help some of the fictoms.
peaple from my country who only yesterday came back also said it was a nightmare becouse noone know what was being done by whome they got told to walk to bridge out of New Orleans but when they get there they get fired over their heads at becouse the milatary isnt leting anyone out of the city.
But anyways we can all agree on this last thing this is he worst thing that could have happened in New Orleans. Noone could have prepared for it in my opinion.
I just hope noone else has to suffer and wish everyone the best of luck and that this wont happen again.
I am not trying to be pro buch or against him nor pro american or against im just writing what the picture of this mess is i saw here in the netherlands.
Let me start by wiching all in New Orleans and who know peaple in those parts all my prayers and hope.
As the pictures started coming in here in holland this is what amazed me the most
I live in holland with is also like New Orleans almost completly beneath sea level. we have had our water problems too but the last time we had it they goverment built a new damms dikes (pardon my spelling) that would last forever, but it seems the damms in New Orleans where only build as a means that had calculated in a failure rate of one in 30 years. I dont know if this is trou but it sounded so wierd becouse our coverment built them to last for ever.
Second thing that got my atention was the fact that huge amounts of money was spent on terorism. Protection equipment to fight fires emergancy hospitals u name it. but when the storm was over all those recourses where not used it seems a waste of human life to have not used em.
Third we got the inpresion the american goverment was more bisy enforsing law by shooting down looters then saving peaple.
Im not saying that if they only helped peaple noone would loot becouse i also saw that peaple trying to fix one of the damms got shot at by gangs. How wierd can it get shooting at the peaple who are trying to save u.
peaple from that sports palace having to break into a drug store just to be able to help some of the fictoms.
peaple from my country who only yesterday came back also said it was a nightmare becouse noone know what was being done by whome they got told to walk to bridge out of New Orleans but when they get there they get fired over their heads at becouse the milatary isnt leting anyone out of the city.
But anyways we can all agree on this last thing this is he worst thing that could have happened in New Orleans. Noone could have prepared for it in my opinion.
I just hope noone else has to suffer and wish everyone the best of luck and that this wont happen again.
Its really easy to bash Bush (espically if you dont support the Iraq war) but it is not his fault that a natural disaster struck. Its also not his fault if the local or state goverment didnt execute their own evuaction plan to get low income folks out of harms way. And its also not his fault if people choose to stay or choose to loot. It is the power of the president to help with the military and with economic aid. If it appears the state and local goverment is unable to cope or simply not able to manage the situation then its up to him to step in. Guess what he did.
To try to link this with Iraq is silly and purly partisan.
As an American I can tell you I have heard of countless acts of courage and selflessness. Americans are opening their doors, their wallets and their time to help. Every major city in this country is sending aid in the form of National Guard troops, trucks with aid, ect.
If people want to hate Bush or America or Americans then thats fine go ahead and close your eyes. Scream at the top of your lungs how he is the devil and how Americans are these over violent brainless thugs that want to rule the world. The fact is this country has spent billions helping the world and protecting the world. Have we been little angels without blemish. Heck no! But I would put our record up against most other nations anyday.
Sorry but I am sick to death of these coments,
For the record I voted for Bush and I am proud of what he and our nation has done and what it stands for!
To try to link this with Iraq is silly and purly partisan.
As an American I can tell you I have heard of countless acts of courage and selflessness. Americans are opening their doors, their wallets and their time to help. Every major city in this country is sending aid in the form of National Guard troops, trucks with aid, ect.
If people want to hate Bush or America or Americans then thats fine go ahead and close your eyes. Scream at the top of your lungs how he is the devil and how Americans are these over violent brainless thugs that want to rule the world. The fact is this country has spent billions helping the world and protecting the world. Have we been little angels without blemish. Heck no! But I would put our record up against most other nations anyday.
Sorry but I am sick to death of these coments,
For the record I voted for Bush and I am proud of what he and our nation has done and what it stands for!
You know, I think I'll bite my tongue at those comments, and agree with you on one aspect ...
These comments, ultimately, are meant for other boards. I feel like, even though I hold a different view from your views McDonis, and some others, it doesn't mean I don't respect them.
It was said long ago, but I'm going to agree finally, my venting done. Let's not get drawn into a political debate. Both sides could go on for years, and quite frankly, there are just other places to do it.
How bout them Tex Murphy games, eh? Simply spectacular!
These comments, ultimately, are meant for other boards. I feel like, even though I hold a different view from your views McDonis, and some others, it doesn't mean I don't respect them.
It was said long ago, but I'm going to agree finally, my venting done. Let's not get drawn into a political debate. Both sides could go on for years, and quite frankly, there are just other places to do it.
How bout them Tex Murphy games, eh? Simply spectacular!
I'm not fat ... I'm festively plump.
Right-on McDonis! May I say that I entirely agree with you comments.
--
Meanwhile, Cubase attempted to clarify the target of his rage by posting:
Your comments remind me of other Bush-bashers who, not long ago, were even trying to blame Bush for the tsunami. I don't just mean failures in the relief efforts. I mean the tsunami itself. The underwater earthquake, the huge tidal wave, everything...It's all Bush's fault. Truly, there is no disaster the angry and bitter Left will not try to blame on Dubya.
Now, it seems, they are attacking Bush for what the incompetent mayor of New Orleans and the governor of Louisiana should have and could have done, and didn't. But somehow, you guessedit, it's all Bush's fault.
This is one of the ways I know that G.W.Bush is a great president - The Left is scared s--tless of him and will grab at any straw to try to bring him down. Anyone that can put them in such a tizzy - Well, you gotta love 'im.
--
Meanwhile, Cubase attempted to clarify the target of his rage by posting:
In that case sir, you most definitely refer to me, so please don't be suprised if I take your words personally.Please understand that when I refer to America in the comments above I refer to the people in charge of the country and NOT its citizens in general. I refer to those who continue to believe Bush is something more than an animal.
Your comments remind me of other Bush-bashers who, not long ago, were even trying to blame Bush for the tsunami. I don't just mean failures in the relief efforts. I mean the tsunami itself. The underwater earthquake, the huge tidal wave, everything...It's all Bush's fault. Truly, there is no disaster the angry and bitter Left will not try to blame on Dubya.
Now, it seems, they are attacking Bush for what the incompetent mayor of New Orleans and the governor of Louisiana should have and could have done, and didn't. But somehow, you guessedit, it's all Bush's fault.
This is one of the ways I know that G.W.Bush is a great president - The Left is scared s--tless of him and will grab at any straw to try to bring him down. Anyone that can put them in such a tizzy - Well, you gotta love 'im.
Now that has got to be close to one of the most ridiculous things I have ever heard. Not saying that you said it, but the idea itself... and I don't even know where you got it from... and I don't think you do either.DrPaul wrote: Your comments remind me of other Bush-bashers who, not long ago, were even trying to blame Bush for the tsunami. I don't just mean failures in the relief efforts. I mean the tsunami itself. The underwater earthquake, the huge tidal wave, everything...It's all Bush's fault. Truly, there is no disaster the angry and bitter Left will not try to blame on Dubya.
Again... complete dribble! Where do you get this stuff from? I will repeat what I said:DrPaul wrote: Now, it seems, they are attacking Bush for what the incompetent mayor of New Orleans and the governor of Louisiana should have and could have done, and didn't. But somehow, you guessedit, it's all Bush's fault.
A year ago the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers proposed to study how New Orleans could be protected from a catastrophic hurricane, but the Bush administration ordered that the research not be undertaken. After a flood killed six people in 1995, Congress created the Southeast Louisiana Urban Flood Control Project, in which the Corps of Engineers strengthened and renovated levees and pumping stations.
In early 2001, the Federal Emergency Management Agency issued a report stating that a hurricane striking New Orleans was one of the three most likely disasters in the US, including a terrorist attack on New York City. But by 2003 the federal funding for the flood control project essentially dried up as it was drained into the Iraq war.
In 2004, the Bush administration cut funding requested by the New Orleans district of the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers and the Mayor of N.O. for holding back the waters of Lake Pontchartrain by more than 80 percent. Additional cuts at the beginning of this year (for a total reduction in funding of 44.2 percent since 2001) forced the New Orleans district of the Corps to impose a hiring freeze. The Senate had debated adding funds for fixing New Orleans' levees, but it was too late.
So, what else are you going to come up with? Oh, here we go:
Funny that... statistically most of the states considered with a majority of right-wing voters were Kerry voters in the most recent election. Also, it looks like I have put you in a bit of a tizzy... that must mean I would be a great president doesn't it? If you believe that is the best way to judge a good president ("because he doesn't take no crap from nobody... uk-hyuk!") then there is something seriously clouding your judgement.DrPaul wrote: This is one of the ways I know that G.W.Bush is a great president - The Left is scared s--tless of him and will grab at any straw to try to bring him down. Anyone that can put them in such a tizzy - Well, you gotta love 'im.
Hey, I would not care if you called our leader (John Howard) a twat becuase I would agree with you. I just cannot see what Bush has done to earn everyones defence... I really can't.
-Cub.
I agree that blaming Bush for the tsunami is ridiculous. They don't call it the Looney-Left for nothing. Maybe I can dig up some of those articles for you. I wouldn't lie to you.
Regarding the levees and funding:
--
From U.S. Army Corps of Engineers News Release No. PA-09-01
The breaches that occurred on the levees were located on the 17th Street Canal Levee and London Avenue Canal Levee. These Levees are completed segments of the Lake Ponchartrain and Vicinity Hurricane Protection Project. No modifications or improvements to these segments were pending, proposed, or remain unfunded.
There are three other hurricane and flood control projects pending and in various stages of development. Even if these projects were completed and in place, they would not have prevented the breach and the flooding. Like the levee that was breached, the projects were designed to withstand forces of what is now classified as a Category 3 hurricane.
The perception of cuts to the Corps budget comes from a misunderstanding of construction project funding practices or from comparing the Administration's budget request to the Corps' project capability figures for these four main projects, which for FY2006 totaled $142.7 million.
Annual project funding includes analysis of the work that can be completed in an upcoming year and the work that has already been completed in a previous year. Funding levels vary as a project progresses. Year-to-year changes reflect the ability to manage resources in an organization that is simultaneously completing multiple construction projects.
Project capability amounts are rarely funded because the Core simply doesn't have the personnel to construct all the projecs at the same time.
--
In other words, funding of the levee projects had little or nothing to do with the outcome.
There has also been strong and continuous opposition to levee construction by environmental groups because the levees cause a loss of coastal wetlands. The Clinton administration continuously opposed funding for the levee projects since 1993. It is also my understanding (although I can't verify it right now) that even if they were fully-funded, the levee projects wouldn't have been completed for some years yet.
So I fail to see how Bush's actions could have had any effective impact on the integrity of the levees.
Regarding incompetence:
The primary responsibility for dealing with emergencies belongs to local and state officials who are charged by law with the management of the first response to disasters. First response should be carried out by local and state emergency personnel under the supervision of the state governor and his/her emergency operations center.
The federal government does not have the authority to intervene in a state emergency without the request of a governor. President Bush declared an emergency prior to Katrina hitting New Orleans, so the only action needed for federal assistance was for Gov. Blanco to request it. She failed at that.
Detailed written plans were already in place to evacuate more than a million people. Gov. Blanco and Mayor Nagin failed to implement the plans. The governor, eventually, had to order the mayor to finally, issue a mandatory evacuation order. Although the city's evacuation plan called for using the fleet of school buses (which could carry 12,000 per run) they weren't used. Instead of evacuating the people, the mayor ordered them to the Superdome and Convention Center without adequate security and no provisions for food, water and sanitary conditions.
Meanwhile, Gov. Blanco failed to take charge of the situation and ensure that the state emergency operations were in constant contact with Mayor Nagin and FEMA.
Are we starting to see any incompetence yet?
--
Regarding your comment that
"..most of the states considered with a majority of right-wing voters were Kerry voters in the most recent election" Sorry. That is just wrong. Way wrong!
Regarding your comment that I value a president "because he doesn't take no crap from nobody.." Those are your words, not mine. I said it is because he puts the *Left* in a tizzy.
Cub, you're a Tex Murphy fan, so I love you. But, no. You'd make an awful president.
Regarding the levees and funding:
--
From U.S. Army Corps of Engineers News Release No. PA-09-01
The breaches that occurred on the levees were located on the 17th Street Canal Levee and London Avenue Canal Levee. These Levees are completed segments of the Lake Ponchartrain and Vicinity Hurricane Protection Project. No modifications or improvements to these segments were pending, proposed, or remain unfunded.
There are three other hurricane and flood control projects pending and in various stages of development. Even if these projects were completed and in place, they would not have prevented the breach and the flooding. Like the levee that was breached, the projects were designed to withstand forces of what is now classified as a Category 3 hurricane.
The perception of cuts to the Corps budget comes from a misunderstanding of construction project funding practices or from comparing the Administration's budget request to the Corps' project capability figures for these four main projects, which for FY2006 totaled $142.7 million.
Annual project funding includes analysis of the work that can be completed in an upcoming year and the work that has already been completed in a previous year. Funding levels vary as a project progresses. Year-to-year changes reflect the ability to manage resources in an organization that is simultaneously completing multiple construction projects.
Project capability amounts are rarely funded because the Core simply doesn't have the personnel to construct all the projecs at the same time.
--
In other words, funding of the levee projects had little or nothing to do with the outcome.
There has also been strong and continuous opposition to levee construction by environmental groups because the levees cause a loss of coastal wetlands. The Clinton administration continuously opposed funding for the levee projects since 1993. It is also my understanding (although I can't verify it right now) that even if they were fully-funded, the levee projects wouldn't have been completed for some years yet.
So I fail to see how Bush's actions could have had any effective impact on the integrity of the levees.
Regarding incompetence:
The primary responsibility for dealing with emergencies belongs to local and state officials who are charged by law with the management of the first response to disasters. First response should be carried out by local and state emergency personnel under the supervision of the state governor and his/her emergency operations center.
The federal government does not have the authority to intervene in a state emergency without the request of a governor. President Bush declared an emergency prior to Katrina hitting New Orleans, so the only action needed for federal assistance was for Gov. Blanco to request it. She failed at that.
Detailed written plans were already in place to evacuate more than a million people. Gov. Blanco and Mayor Nagin failed to implement the plans. The governor, eventually, had to order the mayor to finally, issue a mandatory evacuation order. Although the city's evacuation plan called for using the fleet of school buses (which could carry 12,000 per run) they weren't used. Instead of evacuating the people, the mayor ordered them to the Superdome and Convention Center without adequate security and no provisions for food, water and sanitary conditions.
Meanwhile, Gov. Blanco failed to take charge of the situation and ensure that the state emergency operations were in constant contact with Mayor Nagin and FEMA.
Are we starting to see any incompetence yet?
--
Regarding your comment that
"..most of the states considered with a majority of right-wing voters were Kerry voters in the most recent election" Sorry. That is just wrong. Way wrong!
Regarding your comment that I value a president "because he doesn't take no crap from nobody.." Those are your words, not mine. I said it is because he puts the *Left* in a tizzy.
Cub, you're a Tex Murphy fan, so I love you. But, no. You'd make an awful president.
DrPaul wrote:
Cub, you're a Tex Murphy fan, so I love you. But, no. You'd make an awful president.
*Starts taking down "Cub for president" posters and bumper stickers*
Hmmm... maybe I got 'right-wing' and 'higher IQ level' mixed up there..."..most of the states considered with a majority of right-wing voters were Kerry voters in the most recent election" Sorry. That is just wrong. Way wrong
But, all things aside, I agree with Jim... Besides, there are facts for and facts against everything, hence there are always going to be disagreements. I don't think I will ever like Bush, and I guess some people will never understand that no matter what I say and what facts I present... same as how I will never understand what's so good about him.
This is our haven away from politics and the worries so prevelant in the real world, and I sincerely apologise for ever bringing such a topic into this community.
-Cub.
Well said cub
Like you I have trouble seeing the other side as well. I dont understand why some have decided to drop all the blame of everything from global warming (France) to natural disasters like this one on his plate. I find my president to be strong and making excellent decisions and cant understand why others wish to slander him.
Perhaps we should simply enjoy tex and steer clear of National, Religious and policital discusions.
Like you I have trouble seeing the other side as well. I dont understand why some have decided to drop all the blame of everything from global warming (France) to natural disasters like this one on his plate. I find my president to be strong and making excellent decisions and cant understand why others wish to slander him.
Perhaps we should simply enjoy tex and steer clear of National, Religious and policital discusions.
