Will you get Windows Visa in later in 2006?

Personaly, i'll switch to vista as soon as possible...
But i'll wait 3 to 6 month later to buy my new computer as there will probably not all the hardware it supports available before it is out.
Like i doubt we'll see DirectX 10 cards before vista is out for example.
And i don't feel like buying one when vista is out, and then buying another one 3 month later to have hardware support for directx10.

i'm_melting_i'm_melting wrote:

James LeMosy wrote:...plus a lot of the features that Vista is touting are a big step up from XP.

Yeah, and show me some new 'feature' that wasn't shamelessly plagiarized from another OS and presented as 'new', and then I will respect that.

M$ offend me. The sooner they lose their stronghold over the PC software market, and more people wake up and use open source software, the better off we'll all be.

My headache may go away in the process.

Aww come on... everything is stolen these days!

Apple stole the GUI from Atari, Windows stole it from Apple, and if it was not for Bill Gates Apple would not have existed.

Opera started Tabbed Browsing, now firefox freaks are claiming IE7 is stealing their idea. Give me a break.

Now I don't look at the above as 'stealing'. I look at them as evolutionary adaptations. By this whole 'stealing' theory you could say that Nissan, Mitsubishi, Toyota, etc. all stole the 'car' from the Ford motor group.

When an OS or any other piece of software incorporates a new feature that is an adaptation of a pre-existing beneficial innovation, it is in the user’s best interests to embrace the convenience gained from the addition of such new features, rather than bitch about it and go on about this whole 'stealing' bit.

On another note, why do so many people think that Microsoft is the be all and end all of the computer development world as we know it?? Sure, it's great to be loyal and honourable when it comes to how you manage things in your life, but to waste your time trying to do this with a piece of software?? Give me a break! Here we have folks saying "I won't buy Microsoft, it's stronghold on our PC market is causing a rift in my virtual time space continuum” yet they forget that the PC market is not the bloody federal government! Basically, there are better things in life to swear to by your sword than bloody software!

Now, Linux users… I really respect that you folks have found something that works really well for your needs and it is good to know that Linux has provided people with some choice… but for Pete’s sake, if I hear another Linux user whine about Windows from atop their penguin soapbox I am going to scream! The largest sector of the PC market is the average consumer… that’s right, the same folk who would not now how to use Linux, and probably would not want to know because they have windows, or Mac OS: The simple, easy and common solutions that are more than enough for their PC needs (e-mail, web surfing and word processing). If you are content with Linux for your higher end tasks, than that’s fine, but for god’s sake realise there are two types of Windows users: The mainstream who are happy for it’s simplicity and it’s availability, and the advanced who know enough about computers not to get themselves into any trouble (the kind of trouble Linux users scream blue murder over: “Viruses, Spyware, Hackers”, and other boogie man words).

In summary, it is 2:07am… I am tired, angry and just about to conclude my weekly vent, you have been a fantastic audience, nobody should take this personally as it applies to a broader list of subjects contributing to a personal boiling point of mine. Good night, and good luck. I still love you guys.

-Cub. =o)

I never said they stole anything. They plagiarized, meaning they copied ideas. (Ironically, it was Xerox, a company synonymous with the business of copying, that were the ones who developed the GUI/object orientation/mouse thing first. Apple bought the idea, then M$ copied it) Which is what they have now done with a lot of the 'new' stuff being touted in Vista. Compare some of them with the features in OSX, for starters.

As far as the current consumer base is concerned, its all relative. You are correct in thinking most 'average' home computer users stick with M$ over the years as they don't know any different. They just accept the security issues, stability issues, and performance issues as they have come to accept it as coming with the territory. M$ software has long been synonymous with those things.

And don't get me wrong, I've been using M$ OSs for a long time (QDOS - sorry, MS-DOS, thru Win95, 98, ME and 2000) Only recently did I try Ubuntu on my laptop and I, personally, am happy now.

I don't mean to upset people here. Everyone is free to use which OS they feel comfortable with. I just feel people are missing out and its a shame that through ignorance, people don't realise this and home computing changes for the better.

[First off, let me say that this is not meant to be directed at one specific person, but at this entire subject in general. Just so that's clear. That being said, I am using i'm_melting's comments as a jumping-off point.]

i'm_melting_i'm_melting wrote:Which is what they have now done with a lot of the 'new' stuff being touted in Vista. Compare some of them with the features in OSX, for starters.

I don't think anyone, including Microsoft, is trying to pass these things off as "new"... at least, not "brand new." They're new to Windows, surely, and, by extension new to a large number of computer users. But, we all know there's nothing new under the sun, so the term "new" can be used rather loosely, I think.

i'm_melting_i'm_melting wrote:As far as the current consumer base is concerned, its all relative. You are correct in thinking most 'average' home computer users stick with M$ over the years as they don't know any different. They just accept the security issues, stability issues, and performance issues as they have come to accept it as coming with the territory. M$ software has long been synonymous with those things.

From personal experience, I haven't had a virus or a system crash in as long as I can remember, and my PC runs like blue blazes. The main reason Windows computers get vastly more viruses than Macs isn't because of some inherent Mac superiority, it's because the vast majority of business systems in the world run on Microsoft platforms, and are therefore more available (and lucrative) targets. If the world ran on Macs, or on Linux, or Platform X, you can bet that all the bored hackers of the world would be writing viruses for Platform X, instead of Windows.

It ultimately comes down to personal experience, individual circumstance, and expertise level. Like I said, I haven't had a problem with Windows XP in ages, but I also know a bit more than say, my mom, about how to prevent those problems from arising in the first place. I have a virus scanner, and a firewall, and spyware scanner, etc. Unfortunately, my mom doesn't, and she is like the majority of your average PC users. She expects the thing to just work, without her intervention, which is something Vista will be addressing to a much larger extent than past Windows versions. To say that by doing so, Microsoft is "blatantly plagarizing" is unfair. Plagarism denotes malice. Taking a good idea and putting your own spin on it, on the other hand, is what promotes advancement.

i'm_melting_i'm_melting wrote:And don't get me wrong, I've been using M$ OSs for a long time (QDOS - sorry, MS-DOS, thru Win95, 98, ME and 2000) Only recently did I try Ubuntu on my laptop and I, personally, am happy now.

I don't mean to upset people here. Everyone is free to use which OS they feel comfortable with. I just feel people are missing out and its a shame that through ignorance, people don't realise this and home computing changes for the better.

I'm not upset, per se... It's just that this topic is one that I feel has become moot to the point of irrelevance as OS's become more homogenous. It aggrivates me that more often than not, this particular topic is laced with elitist BS from all sides. I, admittedly, do take a small bit of offense to the implication that simply because I may prefer one computer operating system to another, that I am somehow ignorant or mis-informed. I am neither. If I am upset by anything, it's that I feel the need to come to the defense of people like my parents, family, and friends, who are certainly not ignorant or mis-informed either. They, as well as I, just have much more important things to worry about than what specific method we use to check our email.

I will worship the day when this entire subject is dead and gone. I am not a moron for using Windows. You are not are moron for using OS X. Or Linux. Or Ubuntu. Or UNIVAC and punchcards. Whatever floats your boat. If it gets the job done for you, then go for it... but leave everybody else alone!

...
...deep breath...

So... now that everybody knows one of my pet peeves, who wants ice cream?!

Umm. Heh. Wow. Uh. I want ice cream ... ::raises hand::

Lt. Dan ... Ice Creeeeeeam.

Don't stop now, James. What are your views on politics and religion?

James LeMosy wrote:From personal experience, I haven't had a virus or a system crash in as long as I can remember, and my PC runs like blue blazes. The main reason Windows computers get vastly more viruses than Macs isn't because of some inherent Mac superiority, it's because the vast majority of business systems in the world run on Microsoft platforms, and are therefore more available (and lucrative) targets. If the world ran on Macs, or on Linux, or Platform X, you can bet that all the bored hackers of the world would be writing viruses for Platform X, instead of Windows.

It ultimately comes down to personal experience, individual circumstance, and expertise level. Like I said, I haven't had a problem with Windows XP in ages, but I also know a bit more than say, my mom, about how to prevent those problems from arising in the first place. I have a virus scanner, and a firewall, and spyware scanner, etc. Unfortunately, my mom doesn't, and she is like the majority of your average PC users. She expects the thing to just work, without her intervention, which is something Vista will be addressing to a much larger extent than past Windows versions. To say that by doing so, Microsoft is "blatantly plagarizing" is unfair. Plagarism denotes malice. Taking a good idea and putting your own spin on it, on the other hand, is what promotes advancement.

If you use Windows and it works well for you then good luck to you. As I've said, I don't mind people using other OSs, it's just the market could use a little variety. Whenever I walk into a PC World (just to buy a hard drive....honest!) or Currys and all I see on display are the latest Windows OS and Macs, things look a little stale IMO.

James LeMosy wrote:I'm not upset, per se... It's just that this topic is one that I feel has become moot to the point of irrelevance as OS's become more homogenous. It aggrivates me that more often than not, this particular topic is laced with elitist BS from all sides. I, admittedly, do take a small bit of offense to the implication that simply because I may prefer one computer operating system to another, that I am somehow ignorant or mis-informed. I am neither. If I am upset by anything, it's that I feel the need to come to the defense of people like my parents, family, and friends, who are certainly not ignorant or mis-informed either. They, as well as I, just have much more important things to worry about than what specific method we use to check our email.

I will worship the day when this entire subject is dead and gone. I am not a moron for using Windows. You are not are moron for using OS X. Or Linux. Or Ubuntu. Or UNIVAC and punchcards. Whatever floats your boat. If it gets the job done for you, then go for it... but leave everybody else alone!

I thought I might have been taking things a bit seriously for a second... Thanks for the reality check.
Subjects like this will never be 'moot' or 'gone' as much as a discussion about the merits of ATI vs Nvidia, KDE vs GNOME or white bread or brown. People like to discuss the merits/drawbacks of a lot of things in life, that's what discussion's about. People make decisions on what they want based on something's qualities, or lack thereof, and like to talk to other people about it. If you don't like what someone says, don't read/respond to what they say. I like a debate, however.

I get the feeling here this is getting a bit political, and I don't want the fun of this board to vanish in the face of a 'Me against You' mentality.
Decide for yourself if the ethical support Microsoft gets is warranted. Myself, I'm going down a different route. If I like where it goes, I'll stay there. If not, good ol' Bill will still be here to come back to (not like I've never done it before, many times over) and maybe he will then offer me
something that deserves putting on my system. Until then...

I'd just like to make one more thing crystal clear. I DO NOT consider anyone who uses Windows inferior/stupid/uninformed. Can that go on record, please? Thanks.

Well there you go. Fair enough. Guess I misread your comments a lttle, and if so, I appologize.

No problem, James.

.....ARRGGGGHHH! This headache is driving me bananas.

Christicle!

See... everyone still loves each other!

i'm_melting_i'm_melting wrote:I'd just like to make one more thing crystal clear. I DO NOT consider anyone who uses Windows inferior/stupid/uninformed. Can that go on record, please? Thanks.

Don't worry mate... I did not imply that, as I said before (and I think James and I were on the same wavelength) it was not a directed argument. We used your comments merely as a launch pad to argue our opinions about the majority of much more ignorant parties in discussion. I know you don't think we are foolish in the matter, and I know you aren't either... you seem like an informed user who has benefited greatly from his choices, so hats of to you. ...and apologies if anything said was taken as a stab.

Besides, a 'Me against you' mentality surfacing in a community driven by our common interests (Tex Murphy, gaming, etc.)? I am pretty sure nobody here would want to see that happen, let alone allow it to consume the board... so don't worry, I still consider everyone here as brothers (or sisters).

-Cub. =o)

I cannot get MS Visa and let me tell you why. You see, all my other Visas are maxed out and they won't let me have any more Visa cards. (Big sigh) Such is the life of an old duffer on his way to the poor house. Well, look on the bright side. As long as I can get my daily dose of Geritol I'll be rich forever!

Oddly enough, the crew at Penny Arcade is having this same discussion on a more humorous level, having recently forrayed into the Mac world themselves.

http://www.penny-arcade.com/2006/03/06

Yeah, and show me some new 'feature' that wasn't shamelessly plagiarized from another OS and presented as 'new', and then I will respect that.

Hey Melting, I think you're correct. In fact, I think what M$ is feverishly trying to accomplish with Vista is to get something similar to (make that stolen from) Project Looking Glass, which is a 3D desktop written in Java and already available for Linux, Solaris, Windows, and not sure about OSX. M$ is playing catch-up again.

For a look at Looking Glass, check it out here:
http://www.sun.com/software/looking_glass/details.xml

Actually, I don't think any piece of technology in Windows (which was developed based upon a pre existing technology) was ever passed off as 'new' or 'original'. Sure, they say "New with Windows Vista"... but you don't hear them saying: "New to the PC!" or "New, only in Vista!".

No company, especially not Microsoft claims that it's ideas in innovations in OS developments are purely original (except for of course, the ones that are). If they did, they would be up for some serious legal battles. Instead, the law and the market realises that the innovations of some developers will be adopted by other developers in order to advance the PC market. Otherwise, the differences in OS structures would differ so greatly that there would be a huge rift between users of each platform.

On a special note about the specific topic about Microsoft 'stealing' Mac OS features and innovations... back when Windows 1.0 was released in 1985, Apple tired to take Microsoft to court claiming that Microsoft stole their innovations. But, realising that Apple did not have a leg to stand on (considering they were BOTH guilty or developing technology reminiscent of the Xerox systems), Apple signed an agreement that enabled Microsoft to pay Apple money for development and thus in turn allow Microsoft to freely use any OSX innovations in future Microsoft product releases. A foolish move by apple, perhaps, but it was not for Gate's offer to fund Apple developments under this agreement, they surely would have gone to court and lost, and there would be no more Apple.

So in the subject of Microsoft 'stealing' apple innovations, blame Apple, because they agreed to allow it!

-Cub. =o)