Chinese Government is manipulation the 2008 Olympic event.:(

Yeah I heard about this... Some are saying they are using girls that aren't but 10 years old... Pathetic what some will do to win...


Did you all hear about Phelps, he eats about 12,000 Calories a day, that's right I said 12 Thousand Calories... But yet he won't eat MacDonald's until AFTER the Olympics are over...

Pity, i think us both killed this thread. (laugh)
too focus with Russian and Georgia war conflict.:\

Okay we can move to that topic... lol

Russia signed Rice's Cease Fire Contract, think they will stick to the agreement???

Lets face the facts... nobody here knows the full story... it might be hypocritical coming from me, but lets leave the actual speculation and truth up to the experts before we start accusing China of being cheaters. There are many honest athletes out there who would spew if you told them they did not deserve their medals, so don't be so quick to judge when all you are going on is media hype (after all, most media hype is created as a form of Envy).

And if you read that article, it speaks of 'concerns'... based on the fact that it is merely speculation becuase the Chinese athletes 'look' young. Not really hard evidence at all.

And lastly, it is not uncommon for the host country to be leading the medal tally at all.

-Cub. =o)

I'm not saying if it's true or not, but the news clips I saw had Facial Professionals reviewing pictures of the Chinese athletes... They said that the way the faces were structured that there was no way that these girls had even hit puberty yet...
I personally don't really care, I watch the news, not the Olympics, but to my understanding the USA still won the Gold and the Silver in one of the Gymnastics Events... So even if the Chinese are cheating, they aren't doing it very well...



Now moving away from the speculation of cheating... How about that Sweden guy from the Wrestling competition??? He threw his Bronze on the ground because he was angry he didn't get gold... According to the news they stripped him of his medal altogether...

And then there is that Kenya fellow who ran the 100 in 9.68... From what I saw on the news clip he had even slowed down about 15 meters before the end, so he could have done even better considering he had already shattered the world record, could have probably done it at about 9.65 or so...

Bafitis wrote:I'm not saying if it's true or not, but the news clips I saw had Facial Professionals reviewing pictures of the Chinese athletes... They said that the way the faces were structured that there was no way that these girls had even hit puberty yet...
I personally don't really care, I watch the news, not the Olympics, but to my understanding the USA still won the Gold and the Silver in one of the Gymnastics Events... So even if the Chinese are cheating, they aren't doing it very well...

Different people in different cultures develop differently. It's a known fact that Chinese women, despite reaching puberty still retain petite and youthful features. Most Chinese (or Asian) women look 10 to 20 years younger than they actually are, its how they develop. To compare their physical developments to other countries is ridiculous.

Secondly, if you don't care about the Olympics then perhaps you should not advocate your opinions on it based on the news alone. News reports thrive on negativity becuase it gets the audiences. I made the mistake long ago stepping up on my soap box about certain US current affairs based on what I saw on TV and was way off base compared to those who were experiencing such affairs closer to home. In other words; just becuase the news says so, does not make your regurgitation of what they said an actual educated opinion.

And lastly, yes the USA is a great Olympic nation as you just said but by the same token so is China so until you know for a fact that they are cheaters then please show respect to the athletes who train their whole lives for this moment. Also, Phelps is a freak of nature who does what a normal human being should not be able to do (Winning 8 gold in one Olympics)... but is he a cheater? I personally don't think so, I think he is just really good.

-Cub. =o)

Cubase wrote: Different people in different cultures develop differently. It's a known fact that Chinese women, despite reaching puberty still retain petite and youthful features. Most Chinese (or Asian) women look 10 to 20 years younger than they actually are, its how they develop. To compare their physical developments to other countries is ridiculous.

I think the problem with the Chinese gymnists is that certain members competed in events a few years ago (events where age wasn't an issue) and their official age at those events would make them 12 and 14 respectively. One of the girls was written about in newspapers a year ago and her age was listed to coincide with the information taken from another event.

It is obvious they are cheating. I happen to agree with the people that take the stance "if younger girls can win then maybe the should lower the age requirement." It's pretty silly really. "Proof," is a passport. Anyone can cheat and for all we know the 16 year old American girl is really 14. She looks it.

Cheating is common in sports.

To me the most amusing thing about the olympics was in basketball the rule used to be you couldn't be a professional player from the United States. It was ok if you played professional ball in Europe or anywhere else. You just couldn't play professionally in the USA. When they changed the rules to allow of USA players they also changed the rules for OTHER countries. Now they can't be tested for drugs!

If things were fair... we definitely wouldn't have an Olympics like we have now.

Fact or no fact I don't really see the age issue. What does it matter if the girls are 14 instead of 16? Is it a random number picked some time ago as a cutoff or are there actual reasons? If the reason is that the girl at 14 is more flexible or has more balance or whatever, then so be it, we'll just have a better show. I don't personally see having two less years of training as an advantage but maybe that's just me.

If the only argument is that rules are rules, then I don't give a damn. As thinking creatures we are entitled to question and eventually break rules that make little to no sense when we deem it necessary. If the rich history of public disobedience in the US has proven anything, it's that rules NEVER change until they are publicly challenged and broken.

Cubase wrote:Different people in different cultures develop differently. It's a known fact that Chinese women, despite reaching puberty still retain petite and youthful features. Most Chinese (or Asian) women look 10 to 20 years younger than they actually are, its how they develop. To compare their physical developments to other countries is ridiculous.

I thought the same thing until a Professional facial expert stated otherwise... It had nothing to do with News, yes I know the News Broadcasters themselves thrive on Negativity, but Professional Experts have no reason to be Negative or Positive, they are simply asked for their Professional Opinion... And according to the Professional that I heard, said something about the gaps between the nose and eyes should be wider and the ears should be different and a couple of other things...
The first one is a Statement being made by a Broadcaster and an Olympic Official...
The second one is the one with the Expert Statements...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FbwVhuSUTIU

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jmf5GTALw6o

Cubase wrote:And lastly, yes the USA is a great Olympic nation as you just said but by the same token so is China so until you know for a fact that they are cheaters then please show respect to the athletes who train their whole lives for this moment. Also, Phelps is a freak of nature who does what a normal human being should not be able to do (Winning 8 gold in one Olympics)... but is he a cheater? I personally don't think so, I think he is just really good.

Cub, I'm not trying to fight with you over this, I haven't said that anyone has cheated... I've simply stated what a lot of people are speculating... No one has any better proof than I do, the News Reports, to say whether or not they are Underage...
If they've cheated then they deserve to be reprimanded for it, if they haven't then I wish them the best of luck...

No, I don't think Phelps is cheating, I just think he has found another way to gain the energy for these things... 12,000 Calories a day and have less than 2% body Fat, that's just crazy...
As for Phelps, I don't really know what to say about him... I know that I was on His street a couple of Days ago... The one they named after him 4 years ago... I'm guessing for his performance this year, they will probably name the whole neighborhood after him... Phelpsville... lol Or at least a School, I'm sure he'll get something... I can't figure out which is Bigger in this town right now, Michael Phelps or the Ravens...

He did however state that he isn't coming back in 4 years, he is retiring from Swimming, whether or not he comes back as a coach or trainer remains to be seen...

lotus_j wrote:Anyone can cheat and for all we know the 16 year old American girl is really 14. She looks it.

lotus_j wrote:Cheating is common in sports.

Very true, she does look very young... And before I say it, I know that it can be forged, but something that we do that a lot of other countries don't do is, We Provide Birth Certificates When People Are Born... A lot of countries don't do that, not certified ones anyway...
And it's true, cheating happens it just about any and all sports... Proving it is always the difficult process...

It's like the Patriots last year... Just about every team records the other teams for training purposes, so the Patriots were a little sloppier at it, that's all...
Look at all the baseball players taking Steroids... What was the worst penalty they were getting before the big reports came out??? A One or Two Game Suspension, what kind of penalty is that for cheating and using illegal drugs???

I see your points Baf (and others)... but all I am saying is until the right people make the right judgments (and NOT just speculation) we should respect the athletes and the countries in the Olympic games and not brand them as cheaters... why? Because it makes everyone sound like bitter losers to be quite frank. Innocent until PROVEN guilty, remember.

And about this "facial expert", I am curious to know his credentials and more importantly what nationality he is, becuase it plays an important role in establishing the right knowledge (i.e. Asian faces and physical aging characteristics are very different to those in the western world). Also, since when have these so called "experts" ever been able to prove hard evidence over speculation (which the media seems to think is solid enough for a full story).

I agree, if the world is curious about allegation of cheating, then investigate... but please, you've already got amazing athletes in people likePhelps, so don't be sour about missing out on other medals... you should not let your resentment for other countries who better your own overshadow your pride of people who are already your true heroes.

-Cub. =o)

I believe the Expert is a Female, I'd have to rewatch the video to be positive... Not sure of her Credentials... Almost certain she is American, at least she is a Very well English Spoken woman, so that's what makes me think she is American...
As for the Facial Development, I thought the same thing as you do, but she says it is a worldwide thing that certain things happen at certain ages... I'd love to be able to ask her some questions to clarify some of her points...
The Expert didn't say it, but in one of those Videos someone mentioned something about the Chinese girls still having Baby-Teeth... Now I'm pretty sure that by 12, no matter your origin, you should have all your permanent teeth... Though you would need to bring in a Dentist to verify this information... I'm pretty sure it was just a Broadcaster that said something about the Baby Teeth...


I fully agree with you, Innocent Until Proven Guilty... I also agree with Frank that the age should probably be lowered anyway... Because according to Coaches of Gymnastics, girls peak around ages 11 to 16 anyway... So making them be 16 to compete doesn't sound right to me anyway...

But Olympic Officials said there would be No Investigation... So we are left to either just not talk about it and choose another Sport or speculate at our will... I vote for the former since there is no hard evidence and the discussion could go on forever that way...

The reason they have the 16 yr old age min for the Olympics is to protect the health and safety of the gymnasts. The damage to growth plates and joints, along with the emotional stresses of the Olympics, was deemed too much for younger gymnasts.

Course they've been pounding themselves for years. Some Olympic sports have younger competitors, but I think they realized that there is a SERIOUS problem of explotation, and other issues like eating disorders with these young girls.

That's what I had learned awhile back anyway.

I remember hearing about the possibility of Damage to growth as well, but almost in the same breath they said that it was easier for the younger girls because they are more flexible and lighter and it is easier for them to whip themselves around those bars... Add the pounding of the sport into them, most of these girls start training as young as 2 and 3 years old...

There is good and bad no matter which way you look at it...

Isn't this the first or second Olympics with this age limit?

They used to not have it. The reason they have it is some rather degrading information came out about what many thought was child abuse.

Obviously an 11 or 12 year old will have a much easier time on the balance beam than a 16 year old girl.

Also yes, one of the Chinese gymnists still has some baby teeth.

The facial "expert," is actually a professor of anthropology from some where (at least the one expert i saw on tv about it was) and writes books that were turned into a TV series. It doesn't matter what race there are certain facial features that are prominent on a 16 year old girl. Generally an anthropoligist can tell the age of someone just by looking at their bones.

The Olympic officials will not be looking into this during the games. They would be stupid to do something like that while in China. The Chinese coaches had to sign contracts with their government promising all kinds of things or they'd go to prison! You don't want to mess with China. Mess with them after you're safe in your own country.

Also it's just a medal. Is it really worth it? I mean China DID go through all the trouble of faking passports. America should have just beat them like the 12 to 14 year old girls some of them are!