Lets Hear It For Virginia...

I'm for extreme circumstances. But not the suffering. If someone's caught red-handed doing things like that - by way of a for instance, the Fort Hood thing - just put'em to sleep, shove'em in a hole, be done with it. No extra bells and whistles, just get it over with.

Suffering is what he caused. We're better than that. I know people usually use that argument against capital punishment, but... I believe that some times, you just need to set certain morals and values aside and put a wounded animal out of it's misery, you know?

Some people can't be fixed. Some people are broken and need to be discarded, before they inflict more pain, and more suffering.

Just my coupla bits.

-Fred

Yeah but look at how much it costs to execute people with these fancy methods... Gas Chamber, the cost of the Gas and the system to pump it into the room and the filtering system once the person is dead... Electric Chair, the amount of Electricity needed to kill someone is huge and costly... Lethal Injection, the cost of these chemicals is crazy and the cost of the doctor and medical staff required is outrageous...

A good old fashion 25 foot length of rope, I can get for 30 bucks at the local marina shop and it will last a good 10 years serving dozens of death penalties... The tree on which to hang the rope is Free, I've got on in my backyard that would do just fine...
Sure there is a little bit of suffering as the air is crudely blocked from reaching your lungs...


As for my view on punishment, be it capital or any other kind...
I think the punishment should fit the crime... If you kill someone, then you are to be killed in the same manner in which you killed them...
If you steal from someone, then you are to have anything and everything taken from you for X amount of years... No matter what you acquire it will be taken and given to your victim...
If you rape someone, well then I leave this one to your imagination...



Fort Hood, yes that was horrendous... The shooter has already suffered though since he has multiple gunshot wounds himself and has survived... Now that he is awake, they are giving him the bare minimum when it comes to pain meds...
What his treatment will be once he has healed a bit is anyone's guess at this point...

I wish we had in australia, these jerk's have it easy & we are paying for it.

we should have like in the days of ned kelly & hang them by their necks

I'll take an opposite position on this debate. The crimes such people commit are horrible and they definitely deserve some form of punishment. My worry is that the systems that are in place to judge people are not full proof, and innocent people have been put to death by these systems. If there's a chance you might execute an innocent, it really isn't worth having a death penalty.

My faith has shown me the errors of the death penalty.

There are too many flaws in your ideas, Baf. It wouldn't work in a modern society. Too many loopholes for people to exploit. As another for instance - Women can be vicious enough to claim rape, just to have their spouse or partner or some other person in their life, punished in a way she would like at the time. She might regret it later, of course, but... Seriously. Women can be really cruel like that if they believe they've been wronged in some way.

(Disclaimer: Not all women, of course, but there are some vindictive creatures out there. Goes for men too.)

In any case, the Fort Hood thing is an example of someone who is caught in the act. There is every proof he did it, and not a single doubt or even possibility that it was not him. In such circumstances, I feel capital punishment is, if not just, then at least necessary. I don't believe in revenge. But I do believe in keeping our society free of such damaged individuals.

And as an aside - listen to the way you're talking. A rope in a tree in your own backyard? You've got a young son, buddy. There's some things you wanna spare him from, and watching someone die is pretty high up on that list. And even if you just used your own tree as an example - still, hangings serve too much to fuel the fires of hatred in the hearts of man.

We don't need that hatred. We should shelter ourselves from it, and allow ourselves to forget the person who committed the atrocities, and spend that time grieving instead. At least grief does us some good - hatred does not.

-Fred

As for a method that is painless and cheap, the guillotine.

All things aside... I agree with capital punishment in the most extreme cases.... but I do believe everyone deserves at least the chance to be fixed. I think most crimes that are committed are because of the structure of our society.

The individual may be broken, but they were not born that way. Everyone is a clean slate that is written on through life experiences, and those experiences are what do the most damage. In all honesty, I think the death penalty only addresses the symptom and not the problem. The biggest problem is lack of education, funds and moral compass to parents.

Its been proven through studies that the bigger the differential in living conditions between the lower and upper classes, the more crime in a community. If find this fascinating, because it means that if you go to a community where everyone is poor i.e. there is no middle or upper class, there is virtually no crime. In fact people are more likely to help each other and live in harmony. Go to an area where there is a big gap between the classes and crime is rampant.

Basically, the point I am trying to make is the death penalty and other forms of punishment may be necessary at the moment, but if the focus was shifted on correcting our social problems and the conditions that cause greed, and corruption, within a few generations, I believe that crime would eventually practically disappear and these barbaric methods will no longer be necessary.

That is my 2 cents.

I'm well aware of the flaws... Which is why the punishment for the crime would have to be absolute without doubt, such as Fort Hood...

It would just be better if people could start thinking of more than themselves for a change and live in a peaceful way... Think of all the money that could be taken from law enforcement and war and weapon building and whatnot and devoted to things like medical research and space exploration... We would be colonizing Mars within 50 years and have cures for several cancers most likely... And I mean Colonizing, not just landing a few scientists there to do research...

.

No death penalty ever. To paraphrase Gandhi, there a things to die for, nothing to kill for. No one and nothing benefits from killing a human being.

For those who seek revenge, imagine how deliciously cruel it is to take a person's access to freedom and liberty. Take your joy in knowing the person who committed the crime is punished to be put away in a humane box until death comes for the person.

~@:o?
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I like that.

This has been a good discussion and I will not cast a vote on this matter. It is one thing to find a person guilty of a crime but another thing to decide for or against the death penalty. AV is right - the system is NOT fool proof and that is what scares me.