And since most of my known american friends reside on this forum, well... When I want to ask something of americans, I come here.
So I've been reading about this new healthcare thing you're getting.
All feelings about it aside... I can't find anything negative about it. So... Why do people want to combat this so badly?
Feel free to ignore and/or delete this post if people can't stay civil. It's a simple question, but the answers may not be that simple.
-Fred
So I've been reading about this new healthcare thing you're getting.
All feelings about it aside... I can't find anything negative about it. So... Why do people want to combat this so badly?
Feel free to ignore and/or delete this post if people can't stay civil. It's a simple question, but the answers may not be that simple.
-Fred
Pirates, vampires, zombies, ninjas, ghouls, aliens, goblins, monsters, robots, sorcerers, undead, werewolves, demons, mutated dinosaur-cyborgs and those pesky phone salesmen! The shotgun is a one-size-fits-all solution!
Change, is scary in many people's eyes. Everyone is still in short term recovery mode so I guess it is also bad timing.
A lot of people believe the United States has the best health care in the word, and for the most part they are right. But what they neglect to realise is: the health care SYSTEM is probably one of the worst in the world. So what you have is world class facilities, and doctors, and expertise being crippled by a terrible system... this is compounded by the greed and horrible business practices of the health insurance companies.
Unfortunately those parties against a health reform are able to very effectively convince the public that the health system is fine as it is becuase 90% of the population have never known anything better. Couple this with the somewhat misleading assumption that they are the best in the world (or close to it), and you have a lot of people afraid to change it.
It's kind of like when you were a kid and every kid has a water pistol, and whoever has the biggest water pistol usually is the most effective. Some of the kids have close to the best water pistol money can buy, and to top it off every kid who is friends with this kid gets to use it whenever they want without issue, and free of charge. And then you have the American kid, who has the best water pistol you can get, but pays a lot of money to have access to it, and even then they are not guaranteed access becuase there are too many conditions surrounding the use of the pistol. So they are either not allowed to use it for a huge number of reasons, they have already been wet so they are denied access to it, or by the time they get to use it it's too late.
But, you tell that kid they have the best water pistol in the world and nobody will question the means in which they get to use it.
Anyway, that's who I see it. Unfortunately the US has one of the lowest life expectancies of a developed nation as a result of this. But then again, they are a huge population.
-Cub. =o)
A lot of people believe the United States has the best health care in the word, and for the most part they are right. But what they neglect to realise is: the health care SYSTEM is probably one of the worst in the world. So what you have is world class facilities, and doctors, and expertise being crippled by a terrible system... this is compounded by the greed and horrible business practices of the health insurance companies.
Unfortunately those parties against a health reform are able to very effectively convince the public that the health system is fine as it is becuase 90% of the population have never known anything better. Couple this with the somewhat misleading assumption that they are the best in the world (or close to it), and you have a lot of people afraid to change it.
It's kind of like when you were a kid and every kid has a water pistol, and whoever has the biggest water pistol usually is the most effective. Some of the kids have close to the best water pistol money can buy, and to top it off every kid who is friends with this kid gets to use it whenever they want without issue, and free of charge. And then you have the American kid, who has the best water pistol you can get, but pays a lot of money to have access to it, and even then they are not guaranteed access becuase there are too many conditions surrounding the use of the pistol. So they are either not allowed to use it for a huge number of reasons, they have already been wet so they are denied access to it, or by the time they get to use it it's too late.
But, you tell that kid they have the best water pistol in the world and nobody will question the means in which they get to use it.
Anyway, that's who I see it. Unfortunately the US has one of the lowest life expectancies of a developed nation as a result of this. But then again, they are a huge population.
-Cub. =o)
A lot of people feel that if they are forced onto this new plan, for whatever reason, they feel that a Government Official of some kind or another will end up between them and their Doctor...
Other than that I'm not really sure what most people's complaints are... I'm happy with my Health Care Plan and I don't foresee it going anywhere so I haven't really paid that close attention to all this...
I do have a question of mine own though... I don't expect anyone here to be able to answer it though, it's kind of like a statement really, because you won't find a Politician that will attempt to answer it either...
Most people consider the USA to be the Richest Country in the world and in many ways we probably are... But, if we are indeed the Richest Country in the world, why is it that over 70% of us can barely afford to live here???
I heard this in a movie and after hearing it, maybe an hour or 2 later, I took my dog outside to do his business and I looked up and down my street and re-noticed all the houses now up for sale due to my former neighbors no longer being able to afford them and I thought about that question from the movie... Amazing how true that question/statement really is...
Other than that I'm not really sure what most people's complaints are... I'm happy with my Health Care Plan and I don't foresee it going anywhere so I haven't really paid that close attention to all this...
I do have a question of mine own though... I don't expect anyone here to be able to answer it though, it's kind of like a statement really, because you won't find a Politician that will attempt to answer it either...
Most people consider the USA to be the Richest Country in the world and in many ways we probably are... But, if we are indeed the Richest Country in the world, why is it that over 70% of us can barely afford to live here???
I heard this in a movie and after hearing it, maybe an hour or 2 later, I took my dog outside to do his business and I looked up and down my street and re-noticed all the houses now up for sale due to my former neighbors no longer being able to afford them and I thought about that question from the movie... Amazing how true that question/statement really is...
The Paved Straight Road, Won't Always Get You Farther Than The Winding Dirt Road...
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Can You Run Your Game??? Click Here And Find Out...
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I must say it's a tough question to answer without stepping on someone's toes, and I have absolutely no intension to do so at all, so please bear with me if there should be a comment some of you is uncomfortable with.
I have also heard that the United States is one of the richest countries in the world and according to several websites, the US does have a bigger GDP than any other country. However, looking at GDP per capita which this website has done, the US is suddenly in 9th place. Of course when cutting it down to per capita countries with small populations such as Luxembourg, Norway and Denmark will then be richer countries. But this list also takes other factors into consideration such as health care, literacy rate and general standard of living.
I'm sure it's a really tough and a much harder task to be president of a country with 308 million inhabitants than being prime minister of a country with 5.5 million inhabitants when it comes to pleasing all inhabitants with health care, economy, taxes and all that. So there will always be people who won't approve of the things, the government does.
As for the health reform I have to say that I was very pleased to hear about it. What it exactly entitles I'm not sure, but I'm in the same boat as Fred. I know it's a big change but isn't it all together a change for the better?
I have also heard that the United States is one of the richest countries in the world and according to several websites, the US does have a bigger GDP than any other country. However, looking at GDP per capita which this website has done, the US is suddenly in 9th place. Of course when cutting it down to per capita countries with small populations such as Luxembourg, Norway and Denmark will then be richer countries. But this list also takes other factors into consideration such as health care, literacy rate and general standard of living.
I'm sure it's a really tough and a much harder task to be president of a country with 308 million inhabitants than being prime minister of a country with 5.5 million inhabitants when it comes to pleasing all inhabitants with health care, economy, taxes and all that. So there will always be people who won't approve of the things, the government does.
As for the health reform I have to say that I was very pleased to hear about it. What it exactly entitles I'm not sure, but I'm in the same boat as Fred. I know it's a big change but isn't it all together a change for the better?
.
Well I for one am happy we finally did something. The way things have been going lately have not been good. I agree that most people are just afraid of change more than anything else. I find it strange people saying they don't want government run health care when we've had Medicare for a long time now and people really love that.
Our system has been broken for a long time. I know people boast we've got the best medical care but what's the point if not everybody can afford it. I find it terrible to hear stories about people who have to go into bankruptcy because they can't pay their hospital bills. You shouldn't have to choose between being able to keep your homes and getting treated for an illness that might kill you.
At the same time, I understand the fears of more government bureaucracy. The burden of having to take care of so many Americans is a big one and our debt will grow in the meantime.
To me it comes down to a question of what we value more: people or money. Everybody has to choose between caring for their loved one or saving their money. Why shouldn't the government have to make that tough choice as well?
Baf, our problem is that our wealth distribution is so top heavy. I'm not proposing the communist notion that money should be spread equally amongst everybody. We've got a lot of people that have some money. We've got fewer people that have huge piles of money. Our middle class is weak right now, and I think that's the source of problem. It's the middle class that's drives our economy.
Our system has been broken for a long time. I know people boast we've got the best medical care but what's the point if not everybody can afford it. I find it terrible to hear stories about people who have to go into bankruptcy because they can't pay their hospital bills. You shouldn't have to choose between being able to keep your homes and getting treated for an illness that might kill you.
At the same time, I understand the fears of more government bureaucracy. The burden of having to take care of so many Americans is a big one and our debt will grow in the meantime.
To me it comes down to a question of what we value more: people or money. Everybody has to choose between caring for their loved one or saving their money. Why shouldn't the government have to make that tough choice as well?
Baf, our problem is that our wealth distribution is so top heavy. I'm not proposing the communist notion that money should be spread equally amongst everybody. We've got a lot of people that have some money. We've got fewer people that have huge piles of money. Our middle class is weak right now, and I think that's the source of problem. It's the middle class that's drives our economy.
Samantha
Once you start down the dark path, forever will it dominate your destiny.
Once you start down the dark path, forever will it dominate your destiny.
First, I'd like to thank everyone on the board; this is the most civil discussion I think I've heard on the healthcare reform. If we could just get the public as a whole and the legislators in Washington to be this civil, we might really accomplish something.
I am not sure that this bill was the best option, but I do think it is better than nothing. I think one of the legitimate concerns that has been raised about the bill is its cost. However, I do not think that the current system (pre-passage of the bill) was sustainable.
I know anecdotal evidence is spurious, but for me, the current situation was just not doable. I work for a small law firm, so I am sure we are disadvantaged with respect to group buying power. I just got notice that when our health insurance renews in June, my premiums will increase by 65% (which is over $700 per month). I know that attorneys are supposed to be rich, but trust me, we small town attorneys are not nearly as rich as our big city counterparts. I'm not crying poor, but I just don't have an extra $700 a month right now. My main concern is that my wife is pregnant and our baby is due in July. If we don't find a better plan, then we may have to go without insurance. A few of my law partners are looking into individual plans, but none of those cover pregnancy because it is a pre-existing condition. I know that having a baby without insurance is not the end of the world, but, frankly, it's a bit scary.
Anyway, I'm sure that there are plenty of people who are doing fine without any kind of change in the healthcare system, but for me, something had to happen. I'm just not sure that what was passed does enough to mend the system, and it doesn't do anything to help me in my current situation.
I am not sure that this bill was the best option, but I do think it is better than nothing. I think one of the legitimate concerns that has been raised about the bill is its cost. However, I do not think that the current system (pre-passage of the bill) was sustainable.
I know anecdotal evidence is spurious, but for me, the current situation was just not doable. I work for a small law firm, so I am sure we are disadvantaged with respect to group buying power. I just got notice that when our health insurance renews in June, my premiums will increase by 65% (which is over $700 per month). I know that attorneys are supposed to be rich, but trust me, we small town attorneys are not nearly as rich as our big city counterparts. I'm not crying poor, but I just don't have an extra $700 a month right now. My main concern is that my wife is pregnant and our baby is due in July. If we don't find a better plan, then we may have to go without insurance. A few of my law partners are looking into individual plans, but none of those cover pregnancy because it is a pre-existing condition. I know that having a baby without insurance is not the end of the world, but, frankly, it's a bit scary.
Anyway, I'm sure that there are plenty of people who are doing fine without any kind of change in the healthcare system, but for me, something had to happen. I'm just not sure that what was passed does enough to mend the system, and it doesn't do anything to help me in my current situation.
Oh my, dcat151 - that's a tough situation to be put in - especially with a baby on the way and all!
I must admit that I have absolutely NO idea how the system works in the US. I don't know what the medium wage is, how much you pay in taxes or how much money you normally have to yourself each month after all bills have been paid. I can only talk about how the system is in Denmark and in Denmark I'm extremely happy that our health care is paid through our taxes. So whenever we go to the hospital, we don't pay a dime to get treated. Of course we are the highest-tax country in the world. High-salary people here pay close to 62% in taxes whereas the middle class worker pay between 46-50%. It's pretty high taxes, I know, but here is a quote from a leaflet called "Tax in Denmark - an introduction" explaining a bit how the taxes are spent:
Anyway - I may have written too much uninteresting stuff, so I'll stop now before you all fall asleep
I must admit that I have absolutely NO idea how the system works in the US. I don't know what the medium wage is, how much you pay in taxes or how much money you normally have to yourself each month after all bills have been paid. I can only talk about how the system is in Denmark and in Denmark I'm extremely happy that our health care is paid through our taxes. So whenever we go to the hospital, we don't pay a dime to get treated. Of course we are the highest-tax country in the world. High-salary people here pay close to 62% in taxes whereas the middle class worker pay between 46-50%. It's pretty high taxes, I know, but here is a quote from a leaflet called "Tax in Denmark - an introduction" explaining a bit how the taxes are spent:
1½ years ago I even got laser-eye surgery done because of my bad eye-sight at that time. Due to the fact that my eye sight was worse than normal, I got the surgery for free. Otherwise it would have cost me around 12.000 DKK per eye (that's 2.200 USD per eye). Today I have a perfect eye sight. Today I don't have to use glasses nor contact lensesHow are the tax funds spent?
The tax funds are used to pay for the different expenses that Danish society has such as cash benefits, national pension, family income supplement and for public institutions such as schools, hospitals and the police.
The tasks undertaken by the public sector are very expensive. Take, for example, a kindergarten: The available funds must cover rent, heating, electricity, cleaning, nappies, food, toys, furniture, educators and assistants etc.
An average child at kindergarten costs Danish society approx. DKK 62,000 a year. The parents of the child pay part of this expense themselves, but their contribution depends on their income. However, they will never have to pay more than a third of the full amount. In
recent years, approx. DKK 700 to 760 billion has been spent to cover public expenses in Denmark.
Anyway - I may have written too much uninteresting stuff, so I'll stop now before you all fall asleep
.
2200 per eye! I also got laser surgery but paid it all out of pocket. My insurance considers it a "frill" since glasses and contact lenses do work.
It cost me around 3500 to do both eyes and my eyesight was bad. I couldn't even see the numbers on my alarm clock in the morning with out glasses or contacts.
I definitely think insurance companies here have had control over too many things around here especially the part about denying people coverage because of pre-existing conditions. That was the one thing that really pissed me off the most.
It cost me around 3500 to do both eyes and my eyesight was bad. I couldn't even see the numbers on my alarm clock in the morning with out glasses or contacts.
I definitely think insurance companies here have had control over too many things around here especially the part about denying people coverage because of pre-existing conditions. That was the one thing that really pissed me off the most.
Samantha
Once you start down the dark path, forever will it dominate your destiny.
Once you start down the dark path, forever will it dominate your destiny.
Well, you all know me, and you know that when I want to make a point I'm a blunt sledgehammer.
From all I've read (here and elsewhere) it seems to me that the only reason why some people in the US do not want this bill to pass is because they would stand to make less money.
We got a term for people like that over here in Norway. It basically translates to dicks!
I realize there's more to it than that on both sides of the case, but, this it what it seems to boil down to, in the end.
-Fred
From all I've read (here and elsewhere) it seems to me that the only reason why some people in the US do not want this bill to pass is because they would stand to make less money.
We got a term for people like that over here in Norway. It basically translates to dicks!
I realize there's more to it than that on both sides of the case, but, this it what it seems to boil down to, in the end.
-Fred
Pirates, vampires, zombies, ninjas, ghouls, aliens, goblins, monsters, robots, sorcerers, undead, werewolves, demons, mutated dinosaur-cyborgs and those pesky phone salesmen! The shotgun is a one-size-fits-all solution!
Fred, I do like and agree with your straight-shooter approach. 
There are a lot of lobbyists for the insurance companies paying a lot of politicians a lot of money to stop the bill for just that reason.
They've had the power to pick and choose who they want to cover and to charge whatever prices they want because nobody had any other choice. You get whatever insurance your company carries. If your company doesn't offer insurance you've got to buy it yourself (which is crazy expensive since you are not part of a group) or go without.
Yep you've got it right. Dicks!
There are a lot of lobbyists for the insurance companies paying a lot of politicians a lot of money to stop the bill for just that reason.
They've had the power to pick and choose who they want to cover and to charge whatever prices they want because nobody had any other choice. You get whatever insurance your company carries. If your company doesn't offer insurance you've got to buy it yourself (which is crazy expensive since you are not part of a group) or go without.
Yep you've got it right. Dicks!
Samantha
Once you start down the dark path, forever will it dominate your destiny.
Once you start down the dark path, forever will it dominate your destiny.
Oh I do have something to say about the civility of our current discussion. It all depends on what we are passionate and crazy about discussing.
This is an issue I care about but would I say "go to Washington to protest or get into bar fights with others about"? No.
Now if somebody insulted Tex or said Aaron was a bad writer, then those would be fighting words!
This is an issue I care about but would I say "go to Washington to protest or get into bar fights with others about"? No.
Now if somebody insulted Tex or said Aaron was a bad writer, then those would be fighting words!
Samantha
Once you start down the dark path, forever will it dominate your destiny.
Once you start down the dark path, forever will it dominate your destiny.
well in australia the government started this health system for everyone to be covered for health care. what a mess it is. the workers pay for everyone else.
we pay a levy on our tax return & we also have to have private heath insurance otherwise we have to pay more at tax time. I pay about $2,500.00 a year combined.
When I go to the local GP I choose one that bulk bills (I just sign the form so they can get paid by the government) if they don't bulk bill I change doctors.
The government pays doctors $30.00 a visit & their normal fee is about $65.00.
go to a public hospital & you can wait up to 2 years for the surgery. go to a private hospital & get in straight away but be prepared to pay also as your private insurance still doesn't cover everything.
we pay a levy on our tax return & we also have to have private heath insurance otherwise we have to pay more at tax time. I pay about $2,500.00 a year combined.
When I go to the local GP I choose one that bulk bills (I just sign the form so they can get paid by the government) if they don't bulk bill I change doctors.
The government pays doctors $30.00 a visit & their normal fee is about $65.00.
go to a public hospital & you can wait up to 2 years for the surgery. go to a private hospital & get in straight away but be prepared to pay also as your private insurance still doesn't cover everything.
Lynne
tex murphy is back in town
tex murphy is back in town