Unofficial Tex Murphy

joliet_jane wrote: Oops, sorry. I forgot to mention that I used to be a registered Republican. I listened to Rush as a teen. I voted Bush in 2004. I was even in College Republicans. I wrote an article in the college newspaper about what I thought it meant to be in the GOP. I was dumb. I was hateful. Maybe I still am a redneck. But I want to make up for it.

Your views changed, fantastic. You adapted. You evaluated what was important to you--how you really felt and went with it. This is something all persons should do continually to avoid being stagnant as well as gain a firm standing that they understand the weight of their decisions and how their contributions, i.e. a vote, their career, their community work, ultimately help or hinder society.

I am dumbfounded how you think that a change in a opinion is making up for "redneck" thinking and how you so unabashed use that brush to paint all republicans. You say yourself you are no democrat, but that doesn't mean everyone has reached the same point in thinking as you, nor that the journey there is the same. I am fully aware my viewpoints might change someday, but that doesn't mean I haven't taken the time to flesh them out for now. I just am disgusted you assume that has something to do with being "redneck."

Also, you are faulty to assume I am a republican. I am conservative. That does not mean republican. But, you like to generalize, it seems.

joliet_jane wrote:I also did a little campaign work in '04, so I know that the GOP's success is in part owed to the dumb and hateful. Really. Bush appalled to people's emotions, not their minds. That's how we won in 2004. Smearing Kerry as an "intellectual" was cake. But the Dem. deserved to lose, because they were like the Keystone Kops and could not counter our efforts. They were so clueless. If they lose again, they'll deserve it again, and I'll be happy to be right.

The subconscious use of appalled over appealed is somewhat humorous, given I'm not a huge Bush fan. But, don't lump me in with "we" even though assumption is your game. Kerry was a genuine person. I found him likable; but I found him more so to be a "promise the world" politician, and ultimately, with Bush, I at least knew what I was getting.

joliet_jane wrote:Very slowly, I began to see the error of my ways, yet I cannot be moved to join the Dem. because I'm still wary of them. I'm voting Obama, but it won't make up for all the deaths for all the deaths caused by a war I not only supported but looked forward to.

Voting for McCain doesn't "less make up" for the lives of those Men and Women. Voting for Obama doesn't change what happened. I don't want to argue over an emotional topic, e.g. the War in Iraq. Too often these topics leaves our minds closed to others viewpoints, and ultimately it turns into a reasonless shouting match with no substance behind it. Both parties remain right in their own regard, as our views have no great rationale for us ultimately, they are our "gut" instinct and each of us is wired differently--thankfully so.

One of my main reasons for not voting for Obama is I hope, in my lifetime, to never see the House/Senate be the same party as the Presidency. I don't want ANY law rushed to the front nor any decision that extends or detracts from individual or societal freedoms to be simply glided through without contention. We can always make something better, and when things become easy, things become lazy.

joliet_jane wrote: It's been said that "W" is the best thing that ever happened to the Democratic party. That must be true, because if it had been McCain in 2000, I'd still be my old self.

Whether we like Bush or not, he isn't a candidate for the election. I had to clean slate myself on McCain. A politicians viewpoints are as volatile as our own, and that's the reality of things. You were able to claim your views and see things you saw as mistakes for what they truly were to you. I don't know why a politician couldn't do the same. I do not think McCain is to blame for the mistakes of somewhat he is not nor is he to receive cheer for deeds he did not render.

You have your mind well made up, and I commend you as you seem to have taken strides to make your views your own and you are STRONG and SATISFIED in your vote and your decision. What more can we ask for? It has to be the right decision for you: not for the reporter you get your news from, not from the neighbor next door, and not from a faceless person on this message board. Your solidified view makes you a Great American, nay a great person. You've done your duty.

However, that does NOT give you any credence to assume the lifestyle or viewpoints of another. It does not give you a soap box on which to stand to spout that views you once deemed mistakes are the same mistakes as others.

Sorry, I hope one day to transgress to your level of enlightenment and shuffle off this "redneck" coil. Until then, I'll value my values as my own, and cherish yours as yours. I won't assume when others views are opposed they must be faulty.

Heyuck!
~Keck

My take on this whole thing, from an outsider's point of view who understands he's a guest at this table:

No president has changed domestic politics in decades. From one mandate to another the only thing's that slightly varied has been the foreign affairs. Presidents, however, have the capacity to inspire people into greatness. I don't believe in leadership, but I do believe in inspiration, as well as greatness. And I do believe the only thing this country needs to get back on the path of greatness is a little hope, wherever it comes from.

When it comes to these two candidates, strictly from an observer's point of view, hope comes from the Obama camp. When all is said and done, it doesn't matter if he delivers or not. If the people believe in him, are inspired by him, they'll get back up. Americans only ever relied on themselves to survive and prosper, and this will be the case once more. Put a twinkle back in their eyes and they'll be back and kicking in no time.

Whoever you end up voting for though, get rid of the goddamn fear that was spread in 2001. Get rid of the people who artificially maintain this state of fear. Get rid of the people who see nothing but darkness ahead. Get rid of those who pray on fear and profit from it. Get rid of those who make money out of your misery. Send a clear message to the vampires that hijacked your politics and insulted your country. It's high time you open the windows and clear the air of all the bullshit that sneaked into your house.

And for the love of hell get your teenage spirit back. Everybody dreamed of being young America. No one likes grumpy America.

lotus_j wrote:3. National Health Insurance plans are better than a $5,000 tax cut and trying to change laws to allow people to buy insurance from another state.

I just want to state my opinion on this... I know there are very nice people and capable people that will be put in this category and I apologize, but generally speaking you should be able to see what I mean...

"Most" {not all} people who are in dead-end jobs and don't have health insurance, for the most part don't care... They don't live a healthy life style, be it drugs, drinking, eating fast food 5-6 times a week, or whatever reason they have... Come Tax Season, do you really think that these people are going to take McCain's 5,000 Dollar Tax Rebate and use it on Health Insurance??? HELL NO!!! They are going to have several parties until that money is gone and they are right back to the "Paycheck To Paycheck" life style that they know so well... To give away 5 Grand like that is just plain Stupidity and Irresponsible decision making...

Again I want to apologize for the generalizing, but for more than 80%-85% of people in the above situation, I believe my comment to be correct... I myself know people who work their ass off, but have employers who don't offer a health plan in their company and I also know people who own their own type of business with just themselves and maybe an employee or two... And health insurance is just too expensive for those types of businesses...

lotus_j wrote:5. We can't "lose," the Iraq War if we leave. We already won. After every war the loser is left screwed over and left to rebuild/civil wars. Why care now?

First off, I don't back this war at all... We already Knew who was responsible for 9/11 and we already knew where he was, and it wasn't in Iraq... We had no business going and finishing what Bush's Daddy couldn't... Saddam wasn't a threat and wasn't going anywhere, we could have focused on him after we were CERTAIN that Bin Laden and Al Qaeda was taken care off...

lotus_j wrote:1. We have to raise taxes, we're in debt and spending more than we make. Only one "class," of citizen can afford the hike right now.

It's the Spending that needs to stop... Both Candidates seem to have plans for that... Though McCain and his "Spending Freeze" across the board probably isn't the way to go... Obama on the other hand wants to use a Scalpel from the beginning, which is the better way to go... But it needs to be done fast either way you look at it...



This 700 Billion Dollar Bailout was a Bad Idea as well... Did you know that most of these banks have Billions of Dollars put to the side just for Bonuses and they are Crying to the government for help... That's just Unacceptable... Put those Billions back into your bank and maybe you wouldn't have needed this help...



The new President, be it Obama or McCain, is going to have a helluva cleanup job to do... The next couple of years are going to be a mess for over 95% of Americans... Even those of us that are capable of maintaining our life styles are still going to feel the impact of everything that has and will happen...

And on top of that, no matter who it is, there will be a Foreign Power that will test the New President... Will his decision making be quicker and better than Bush's... Most likely, but it will be tested nonetheless...

litlkeck wrote: I am dumbfounded how you think that a change in a opinion is making up for "redneck" thinking and how you so unabashed use that brush to paint all republicans.

From your constant repetition of the term, I can see you're offended by the "redneck" comment. I never meant that personally. It's about conservatism as a whole, so I won't take it back.

I just am disgusted you assume that has something to do with being "redneck."

Actually that has a lot to do with it. That's a part of how the GOP markets itself. It has been the source of their success and could potentially kill them. And even conservatives are starting to find it so disgusting that they can't deny it any more:
http://www.colbertnation.com/the-colber ... t-s-alive-
If McCain loses, it will be re-think time. Big Time. (but I think he'll win)

Also, you are faulty to assume I am a republican. I am conservative. That does not mean republican. But, you like to generalize, it seems.

Whoops, I forgot about Barr!

Anyway, I first got interested in politics because it was like a game, like rooting for a football team. I suppose I still am that way, because I like to see a good play.

Forget about it. I just don't like assumptions. We're going to be opposite on this, which is fine.

I just don't like that when someone's views are opposite yours they are stupid(lotus) or a redneck(joilet jane).

I hate these topics. I've said my peace. I'll move to a happier thread where things aren't made personal because your viewpoint is different and it's no longer excusable to insult large groups of people without hesitation. Why a civil conversation with differing views can't be possible, I'll never know.

I'll leave this with the immortal words of Peter Griffin: "A Degenerate am I? Well you sir are a Festizio. See, I can make up words too."

~Keck

litlkeck wrote:Forget about it. I just don't like assumptions. We're going to be opposite on this, which is fine.

Okay.

litlkeck wrote:I just don't like that when someone's views are opposite yours they are stupid(lotus) or a redneck(joilet jane).

I hate these topics. I've said my peace. I'll move to a happier thread where things aren't made personal because your viewpoint is different and it's no longer excusable to insult large groups of people without hesitation. Why a civil conversation with differing views can't be possible, I'll never know.

I am not personally calling you a redneck. There are good, intelligent reasons to be conservative. I haven't forgotten them. I don't think I'm being uncivil when I say that the character of conservatism has changed dramatically and utterly in the past 10 years. People have written books about this. It's not a smear I just made up.

EDIT:
Yeah, maybe we should just forget about it. This isn't going to get either of us anywhere.

litlkeck wrote:Forget about it. I just don't like assumptions. We're going to be opposite on this, which is fine.

I just don't like that when someone's views are opposite yours they are stupid(lotus) or a redneck(joilet jane).

~Keck

Well you assume that people whose views are opposite of mine are stupid. I don't assume that. I don't assume people that vote for McCain are stupid either. I know they're ignorant.

Big difference.

This isn't about "opinions." One plan is either better or not.

I keep hearing that Obama is a giant liberal. How come his economic plan is more "conservative" than the McCain plan? Weird.

I didn't mean for this thread to become a Blood War...
Lets all take a step back and take a breath... Politics are always a risky subject, but over the past few months we've had several threads that were political and they went rather smoothly, so I figured we'd be able to handle another... Lets just slow down a bit...

lotus_j wrote:I don't think a reasonable person can look at the FACTS behind both candidates and choose the dumb guy.

lotus_j wrote:The only thing that could make someone pick the idiot who skated through college (and was only in that college because Daddy was an Admiral) is ignorance. Anyone with any kind of intelligence can't possibly look at both sets of plans and side with McCain.

You're right, you never called anyone with opposing views from yours stupid at all.

Point taken.

I'll see you guys after the election. When maybe people can talk to each other again without insulting each other like it's nothing. I certainly appreciate the passion everyone has. It's a very good thing to be sure on issues and to have looked into w hat YOU value and want from your government. It keeps us strong, whether we agree or not.

But honestly, cannot a point be made without generalising or name calling? A point is no less strong, I believe stronger, without it.

But, ya, I'm taking a "posting vacation" from the Board until after the election. Regardless of who wins, I'll stand behind him. Being upset cannot change who won, and frankly life will go on and probably remain fairly unchanged--regardless of who wins.

See ya in a week!
~Keck

litlkeck wrote: I'll see you guys after the election. When maybe people can talk to each other again without insulting each other like it's nothing. I certainly appreciate the passion everyone has. It's a very good thing to be sure on issues and to have looked into w hat YOU value and want from your government. It keeps us strong, whether we agree or not.

But honestly, cannot a point be made without generalising or name calling? A point is no less strong, I believe stronger, without it.

But, ya, I'm taking a "posting vacation" from the Board until after the election.

"I'm going to take my ball and go home! "

Look, I never meant to offend you personally, and I'm sorry that I did!

I'm not passionate about this subject at all.

I just know that American Voters are incredibly stupid. They vote for all the wrong reasons. They vote for "ideals," and "I really like him!" They rarely vote for the better plan. They vote for a myth.

As a conservative if I went into the booth and just voted for Republicans because I believe in conservatism that would be incredibly ignorant.

What is sad is when a self proclaimed Democratic Socialist (the independent from Deleware) has more conservative stances than most of the party I'm supposed to believe in.

The big news now is that the Republican Party will be having a huge meeting next Thursday. They will be deciding on their future. Who wants to bet they lay their hopes on Palin instead of Ron Paul? Ron Paul is their answer (much of his VIEWS are the answer he personally may not be).

lotus_j wrote:I'm not passionate about this subject at all.

I just know that American Voters are incredibly stupid. They vote for all the wrong reasons. They vote for "ideals," and "I really like him!" They rarely vote for the better plan. They vote for a myth.

As a conservative if I went into the booth and just voted for Republicans because I believe in conservatism that would be incredibly ignorant.

What is sad is when a self proclaimed Democratic Socialist (the independent from Deleware) has more conservative stances than most of the party I'm supposed to believe in.

The big news now is that the Republican Party will be having a huge meeting next Thursday. They will be deciding on their future. Who wants to bet they lay their hopes on Palin instead of Ron Paul? Ron Paul is their answer (much of his VIEWS are the answer he personally may not be).

Preach that sweet Ron Paul truth baby!